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Announcing The Hybridfighter Contest

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Re: Announcing The Hybridfighter Contest

Postby kyphur » Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:53 am

Solo wrote:kyphur: Hasn't every Mini and UCS vehicle had a minifig scale counterpart? I don't see the point of this question, but as long as it's an official set in any scale you can recreate it at minifig scale and use it in your entry. Alt models are not included however as they are not official sets.


I believe you are correct when limited to the Official Primary Models, I probably should have asked the questions in reverse order as the second was most relevant.

That means the Outrider & Assault Gunboat are out of the question...
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Re: Announcing The Hybridfighter Contest

Postby naugem » Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:49 pm

I'm still confused about a rule that has already been discussed in multiple posts, so if someone could explain this to me in other words I would be very grateful.
What does it mean to "NOT take chunks of two official LEGO sets and attach them together"?
Looking at the Wookiepedia uglies, most of them have very recognizable chunks taken from the source ships.

Thanks!
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Re: Announcing The Hybridfighter Contest

Postby Solo » Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:44 pm

Everything is supposed to be of your own design. Here is an example from the previous contest that breaks this rule, even though it was a fine Ugly and a valid contender in that other contest. Note that the Y-Wing engines and the X-wing fuselage are constructed basically the same as the official sets. Here is another example and the official sets used. That was fine for the last contest, but we want you to be more original like the two models used for examples in the contest announcement post. Adrian's is made from a Tie-Drone and Naboo N-1, but he did not use the official sets. Same for Andrew's combination of an X-wing and Y-wing. Original designs of ships that have official versions, but not chunks from official sets.

Does that make more sense?
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Re: Announcing The Hybridfighter Contest

Postby onions » Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:27 pm

kyphur wrote:
Solo wrote:kyphur: Hasn't every Mini and UCS vehicle had a minifig scale counterpart? I don't see the point of this question, but as long as it's an official set in any scale you can recreate it at minifig scale and use it in your entry. Alt models are not included however as they are not official sets.


I believe you are correct when limited to the Official Primary Models, I probably should have asked the questions in reverse order as the second was most relevant.

That means the Outrider & Assault Gunboat are out of the question...



honestly, were you really going to do an outrider/assault gunboat mashup?
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Re: Announcing The Hybridfighter Contest

Postby badgerboy » Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:29 am

I'd love to enter this, I remember the last competition launching and was cursing that I couldn't enter... fingers crossed inspiration strikes sometime soon!
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Re: Announcing The Hybridfighter Contest

Postby Mister Ed » Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:01 am

Solo wrote:Everything is supposed to be of your own design. Here is an example from the previous contest that breaks this rule, even though it was a fine Ugly and a valid contender in that other contest. Note that the Y-Wing engines and the X-wing fuselage are constructed basically the same as the official sets. Here is another example and the official sets used. That was fine for the last contest, but we want you to be more original like the two models used for examples in the contest announcement post. Adrian's is made from a Tie-Drone and Naboo N-1, but he did not use the official sets. Same for Andrew's combination of an X-wing and Y-wing. Original designs of ships that have official versions, but not chunks from official sets.

Does that make more sense?


Not really. I mean, it does, but it seems a rather arbitrary and problematic restriction, given how difficult it can be to recreate some portions of some ships in LEGO without using substantially the same construction as the official set. I mean how many pieces have to be changed to avoid getting disqualified? It makes much more sense to me to rate based on the quality of the end product than to scrutinize the building details looking for portions that might lead to disqualification. But you're the boss.
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Re: Announcing The Hybridfighter Contest

Postby Ninja Nin » Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:18 am

Mister Ed wrote:
given how difficult it can be to recreate some portions of some ships in LEGO without using substantially the same construction as the official set.


Somehow I can feel the beauty from this contest of uglies ;)

So basically, no "chunks" from sets, i.e. no official design of fuselage, wings, cockpits etc.

But bricks from star wars sets are fine, am I right ?

For example, the tie-fighter windscreen, which is quite unique. It would be difficult to assemble a Tie-something hybrid if the Tie cockpit is a choice but lack of the windscreen.

Thanks !
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Re: Announcing The Hybridfighter Contest

Postby Boyfromvalley » Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:53 am

Dose it have to be a single pilot fighter or can it have two with two cockpits like the cloud car?
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Re: Announcing The Hybridfighter Contest

Postby kyphur » Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:23 am

onions wrote:honestly, were you really going to do an outrider/assault gunboat mashup?

No, not the Outrider if I wanted it's components I could get most of them from the Falcon.

I was thinking about the Assault Gunboat & something else...
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Re: Announcing The Hybridfighter Contest

Postby Solo » Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:52 am

Mister Ed: Problematic? Maybe, that's part of the challenge. Arbitrary? Not even remotely. We want you to be original. There's little skill required in following official instructions. This is Lego. There are literally innumerable of ways to build the same ships, and the official designs are far from perfect. Start from scratch and if you somehow end up with a significant portion that duplicates the construction from an official model, try again.

Ninja Nin: Yep, exactly. You get it.

Boyfromvalley: Since some fighters like the ARC-170 have several pilots and a droid on board, you're welcome to include more than one pilot. Just keep in mind it's a starfighter and not a gunship or transport.
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Re: Announcing The Hybridfighter Contest

Postby Mister Ed » Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:21 am

Solo wrote:Mister Ed: Problematic? Maybe, that's part of the challenge. Arbitrary? Not even remotely. We want you to be original. There's little skill required in following official instructions. This is Lego. There are literally innumerable of ways to build the same ships, and the official designs are far from perfect. Start from scratch and if you somehow end up with a significant portion that duplicates the construction from an official model, try again.


Like I said, you're the boss. I still think it's arbitrary, your protests to the contrary notwithstanding. And more than a bit ironic, in that the contest is about building a ship that is cannibalized from two other ships, yet you are disqualified if you actually DO that to any extent. You are required to build up COMPLETELY from scratch a representation of a ship whose very design ethic is predicated in avoiding just that situation. :facepalm:
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Re: Announcing The Hybridfighter Contest

Postby Solo » Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:01 pm

the contest is about building a ship that is cannibalized from two other ships,
Absolutely right.
yet you are disqualified if you actually DO that to any extent.
Absolutely wrong.

You're more than welcome to MOC up two full Star Wars ships to start with and then decide which parts of each to use for your hybrid. You just can't copy the official models.
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Re: Announcing The Hybridfighter Contest

Postby Mister Ed » Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:12 pm

Methinks you are deliberately missing the irony here. If the only way you can ACTUALLY cannabalize two ships to make one is to design TWO ships from scratch first, then that obviously goes against the entire design ethic of uglies. You are free to dictate whatever rules you like, but that doesn't make them any less ironic.

(I will admit that some of what is rubbing me the wrong way about these ironic rules is the fact that you have taken what WOULD be a design challenge tailor made to give folks with more limited collections of LEGO a decent shot, and turned it around to swing the advantage squarely back to those folks with large pools of parts to draw from.)
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Re: Announcing The Hybridfighter Contest

Postby onions » Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:42 pm

I understand what your point is, Mister Ed. And I agree there's only so many ways you can build, say, the cockpit of Luke's Landspeeder, without making something look like it was ripped off an official set. But If you look at the samples that Don posted, there's a very distinct lack of effort, like this one:

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Exchanging the engine nacelles from Grievous' starfighter with the ones from a Naboo starfighter isn't exactly rocket surgery. Neither is slapping on a tail taken from a droid trifighter set. Those are just official sets reattached together.

If you want to build a y-wing cockpit into your hybridfighter, and end up building one that looks exactly like an official set then i say rebuild or rethink the design and build something that's your own. your peers are going to want to see something original and will spot cheap shortcuts.

The best advice I can give anyone attempting this contest is this: think of two ships you want to mash together, and build them from the ground up. do not use official sets as guides. don't even have them in sight. do not use official set instructions as guides. sit down with a pile of bricks and build. that will be the easiest way to avoid what we, the contest admins, are trying to avoid seeing.
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Re: Announcing The Hybridfighter Contest

Postby Mister Ed » Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:07 pm

I agree that the lack of effort on that ship is obvious. I guess I just think that would already be self-punishing, as few would vote for it, regardless of any rule against recycling parts of an official set. I think it is perfectly plausible to make a good-looking model, one that doesn't lookTHAT slapped together, while still having elements of the design that look, for the most part, like the official sets. I kind of doubt I could make, for instance, a Y-Wing engine that would differ significantly from both the official versions. And of course, for somebody that has a more modest collection of LEGO, the best parts they will have available to make something that looks like part of a certain ship will be...the official set of that ship. It seems like these rules take some of the focus off making a cool ugly and shift it to scrutinizing your design and reworking it (possibly for the worse) simply to avoid being disqualified by partial similarities to official designs.
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Re: Announcing The Hybridfighter Contest

Postby MisterFubar » Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:16 pm

Does everyone sit around try to come up with every imaginable question they can think of that the rules don't specifically cover?

Take 2 ships that have had official models made of them.

Ignore the official LEGO models.

Make 1 ship using partially recognizable elements of both ships without stealing any design elements from the official models.

It shouldn't be that hard to make a new TIE cockpit, Y-Wing engine, or B-Wing... uhm wing, without ripping off the LEGO design.

Seems pretty simple to me.

You aren't making an "ugly" version of 2 LEGO Models... You are making an "Ugly" version of 2 Ships using LEGO.
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Re: Announcing The Hybridfighter Contest

Postby Mister Ed » Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:20 pm

MisterFubar wrote:It shouldn't be that hard to make a new TIE cockpit, Y-Wing engine, or B-Wing... uhm wing, without ripping off the LEGO design.

Seems pretty simple to me.


Really? I'd be curious to see a Y-Wing engine built to a similar scale as the official models that differs from BOTH of them more than cosmetically.
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Re: Announcing The Hybridfighter Contest

Postby MisterFubar » Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:27 pm

Mister Ed wrote:
MisterFubar wrote:It shouldn't be that hard to make a new TIE cockpit, Y-Wing engine, or B-Wing... uhm wing, without ripping off the LEGO design.

Seems pretty simple to me.


Really? I'd be curious to see a Y-Wing engine built to a similar scale as the official models that differs from BOTH of them more than cosmetically.


Not that any of these are really good looking models but here are a few I was able to find on my neutered work internet in just a few minutes that don't use the same design as any of the official models...

http://www.mocpages.com/moc.php/210243

http://www.mocpages.com/moc.php/14123

http://www.mocpages.com/moc.php/97851

Just because there are only so many ways to skin a cat doesn't mean you shouldn't try a new one.
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Re: Announcing The Hybridfighter Contest

Postby Solo » Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:33 pm

Mister Ed: Stop worrying so much about people with bigger collections and just build the best you can with your pile of parts, and don't sweat the minutea within the rules and just make your hybrid awesome and original. If there's any potential violation that would disqualify your entry we'll mention it before the deadline so as long as you don't wait until the last minute to post you'll have time to address any potential problems. Since you brought up the Y-wing nacells as being particularly problematic, there's always more than one way to skin a cat.

(post-preview edit: haha! well played MrFubar... I would have beaten your post if I weren't at work right now! :lol: )
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Re: Announcing The Hybridfighter Contest

Postby Mister Ed » Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:39 pm

In a way, you are kind of making my point for me, as almost all of those look lousy (the last one Solo posted looks pretty good, but coincidentally, it looks the most like the official sets). The official sets aren't perfect, true, but for some elements, forcing you not to use a very similar design to the official set will likely result in a design that looks WORSE.

But, yeah, there is little to be gained by belaboring my point. I'll just shut up now and see what I can accomplish.
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