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How Awesome FBTB is NOT [Staff Appointed Title]

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How Awesome FBTB is NOT [Staff Appointed Title]

Postby klausunion » Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:31 am

onions wrote:worthless

esp this one:
Image


Way to encourage people to post new pics! "Worthless" is a pretty strong word.

At least we get to see Bane and Secura a little closer. And we get a better look at Wampa too, who i think looks awesome. It's interesting that the Snowspeeder looks a little closer to 4500 than the one that came in 7666, with the orange bits...
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Re: SUMMER 2010 PICTURES!

Postby Draykov » Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:32 pm

klausunion wrote:Way to encourage people to post new pics! "Worthless" is a pretty strong word.


And why should he encourage people to post crappy images that lead to little more than speculative slap-fighting, disappointment and pity parties? How is that good for the community exactly?
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Re: SUMMER 2010 PICTURES!

Postby klausunion » Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:44 pm

Draykov wrote:
klausunion wrote:Way to encourage people to post new pics! "Worthless" is a pretty strong word.


And why should he encourage people to post crappy images that lead to little more than speculative slap-fighting, disappointment and pity parties? How is that good for the community exactly?



Sorry, I guess I didn't realize FBTB was becoming elitist about what pics are posted. I mean, they may not be the best pics but at least we do get a nice image of Wampa. And I don't see any speculative slap-fighting. In fact, the only slap-fighting I see is in the above quote.

But you do have an excellent point... I mean, how can anyone in the 'community' really benefit from pictures not seen before of minifigs that haven't been released? :|

By the way, how does telling someone that the pics they have posted are worthless benefit the community exactly?

Many AFOLS don't really know other AFOLS. When I tell someone about some new LEGO product I'm excited about, I usually just get strange looks. FBTB is one of the only places where we can talk about it without risking some snobby response - or at least it was.
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Re: New 2010 sets!!!????

Postby onions » Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:01 pm

the images posted on the idle hands blog may have a few more decent pics in the form of a wall banner that showcase the wampa, or cad bane, and maybe you can glean a few details of aayla, and i will concede that not all the pictures are wasted pixel space, but the one grainy, blurry shot of the CTT through the doorway under the guy's arm is WORTHLESS and completely laughable.

and i'm sorry you do not have the benefit of a lug where you can share your enthusiasm with fellow afols. at least online, you can connect with those that do. but to not accept that someone online on a website dedicated to lego star wars (and other licensed lines) cannot have a dissenting opinion, and then indirectly accuse those in disagreement to squash the opinion of others is hypocritical. we're not all drinking the cool aid, and sharing opinions of varying nature is precisely the sole purpose of a community.

and to call us elitist? please. desiring clear images not inspired by the paparazzi school of photography is not a form of elitism.

and now, to inject a bit of humor into this discussion:

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Re: New 2010 sets!!!????

Postby klausunion » Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:19 pm

I just thought the "worthless" response seemed mean-spirited. I would have left it at my sarcastic initial post, but could not resist the urge to respond to the slippery slope that draykov created.

Pity parties? Really? To imply that pictures of new 2010 sets are not appropriate in a thread about pictures of new 2010 sets seems backwards to me.

I like the comic.

I digress.
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Re: New 2010 sets!!!????

Postby alldarker » Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:09 am

One casual glance on the forum and I get confronted with the above flame war. I once again realize why FBTB has gone totally down the drain in the last couple of years. No wonder people like SpeaknSpell doesn't come around here anymore.
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Re: New 2010 sets!!!????

Postby Draykov » Sat Jan 30, 2010 8:39 am

Excitement about new product and intelligent discussion about said product: supported

WIld speculation and subsequent complaints about how unreasonable expectations weren't meant: discouraged

Apparently, to say any more than that might unravel the world or hurt Mr. Whisker's feelings.
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Re: New 2010 sets!!!????

Postby onions » Sat Jan 30, 2010 12:33 pm

if you think fbtb has gone down the drain in the last couple of years, it's because of logic and reasoning like this:

klausunion wrote:FBTB is one of the only places where we can talk about it without risking some snobby response - or at least it was.


and this:

alldarker wrote:No wonder people like SpeaknSpell doesn't come around here anymore.


i seriously don't understand what people expect these days. should everyone be all roses and butterfly kisses over anything and everything? if you don't like drama or flame wars, don't read it, don't get involved. if you can't handle a discussion and run the risk of having people disagreeing with you or having an opinion that differs than yours, don't participate. like i said, a community is all about sharing ideas from all points of views. how boring would it be if everyone was gung ho about everything there is about lego star wars?
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Re: New 2010 sets!!!????

Postby klausunion » Sat Jan 30, 2010 2:14 pm

onions wrote:if you think fbtb has gone down the drain in the last couple of years, it's because of logic and reasoning like this:

klausunion wrote:FBTB is one of the only places where we can talk about it without risking some snobby response - or at least it was.


and this:

alldarker wrote:No wonder people like SpeaknSpell doesn't come around here anymore.


i seriously don't understand what people expect these days.


I would expect to see exactly what you describe "a community that is all about sharing ideas from all points of view". Calling someone's post "worthless" doesn't really feed that ideal. That's really all I was trying to say.

In anticipation of draykov insinuating that i'm a sad kitty cat whose world is unraveling, I will say this: I'm rubber, you're glue...
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Re: New 2010 sets!!!????

Postby MrCRskater » Sat Jan 30, 2010 8:40 pm

onions wrote:if you don't like drama or flame wars, don't read it, don't get involved. if you can't handle a discussion and run the risk of having people disagreeing with you or having an opinion that differs than yours, don't participate.


I'd just like to point out that there's a difference between a "discussion" or difference of opinion and "flame wars". I'm all for difference of opinion and "informal debate" (i.e. definition of "discussion") and can stand a healthy dose of sarcasm, but the frequency of contemptuous comments and negative language thrown around on this forum is embarrassing and off-putting. Those who dole it out act like it's business as usual, but it doesn't have to be and is a miserable and worthless (to use the word of the day) practice that is perpetuated only by a select few.

Now to answer onions' question: "should everyone be all roses and butterfly kisses over anything and everything?" No, of course not, 'cause you're right, that would be boring. But disagreement alone is not reason enough to be condescending or mean-spirited, and those that think so have a lot of growing up to do.

That said, I will disagree here and say (politely, but frankly) that 'tis true: low-resolution, poorly-framed, poorly-lit, etc. photos are nothing to get excited over, especially in this instance. We already knew a new turbo tank was coming, and this funky shot sheds less light on the upcoming set than the box art (which we've already also seen). Glad you're stoked, klausunion, but for my money there's nothing more to be stoked on at this point other than the fact that we're getting a turbo tank. Hopefully in a few months we'll find out what this thing can really do. . .
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Re: How Awesome FBTB is NOT [Staff Appointed Title]

Postby theJudeAbides » Sun Jan 31, 2010 4:36 pm

I agree with MrCRskater. There is a huge difference between engaging a topic, disagreeing with someone and just putting down their opinions/ideas. I'm reminded of this thread, which, if I recall correctly, is required reading before posting anything.

dWhisper wrote:First, don’t disparage other members on the boards. That means no name calling, snide posts, or sarcastic responses.

I'd have to say, both onions and draykov's responses have been far more disparaging, snide, and sarcastic than I would expect from the mods/admins. Isn't it you guys job to not only enforce the rules but to lead by example? When some viewers (particularly younger ones) see you guys behaving this way, they think that makes it OK for them to do the same.

dWhisper wrote:Here’s the problem with a public attack… the person who makes the jab always, absolutely always, looks worse than the person they’re correcting.

While I do agree that the picture in question here wasn't the greatest picture ever posted and really didn't add much to the thread, onions still comes off as a jerk in posting it the way he did. No, you don't have to be all "roses and butterflys" in your response, but calling another member's contributions "worthless" isn't going to endure you to them, either. It's not your opinion I have a problem with, it's how you chose to express it.

When we transitioned to the new FBTB, I noticed a marked improvement in "hospitableness" from some of the well-known "sarcastic jerks" such as Don and dWhisper. I assumed this was largely due to the administrator's (read: onions) intervention. I've actually found dWhisper's reformance to be quite amazing, given the MOD I used to know him to be. So it saddens me when I see the administration reverting back to old ways, because I know the trickle-down effect it will have.

I know that it's your site, onions, and that you certainly have the "right" to post however you choose. But you also have to realize that, much like any other leader, you're held to a higher standard than everyone else and your actions and posts will directly affect the direction of these forums. So in the end, you just have to ask yourself what kind of board you want to cultivate: the kind that's snide, sarcastic, and uninviting to newcomers; or the kind that welcomes them and is gentle and forgiving of their mistakes.


And yes, I know this is a bit of "the pot calling the kettle black," but I'll tell you what, if I promise to work on it and try not to always be so ornery, would you be willing to do the same?
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Re: New 2010 sets!!!????

Postby klausunion » Sun Jan 31, 2010 5:29 pm

MrCRskater wrote:
onions wrote:if you don't like drama or flame wars, don't read it, don't get involved. if you can't handle a discussion and run the risk of having people disagreeing with you or having an opinion that differs than yours, don't participate.


That said, I will disagree here and say (politely, but frankly) that 'tis true: low-resolution, poorly-framed, poorly-lit, etc. photos are nothing to get excited over, especially in this instance. We already knew a new turbo tank was coming, and this funky shot sheds less light on the upcoming set than the box art (which we've already also seen). Glad you're stoked, klausunion, but for my money there's nothing more to be stoked on at this point other than the fact that we're getting a turbo tank. Hopefully in a few months we'll find out what this thing can really do. . .



The link posted wasn't just that armpit view of the ctt (which i agree is nothing to be excited about), there are really good shots of cad bane and wampa / wampa cave that are probably the best i've seen of them so far.
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Re: How Awesome FBTB is NOT [Staff Appointed Title]

Postby Turkguy19 » Sun Jan 31, 2010 5:42 pm

I miss the days when someone could say something sucked and people didn't whine about it...

P.S.

I <3 the staff and their bluntness
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Re: How Awesome FBTB is NOT [Staff Appointed Title]

Postby Draykov » Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:43 pm

theJudeAbides wrote:I'd have to say, both onions and draykov's responses have been far more disparaging, snide, and sarcastic than I would expect from the mods/admins.


I don't see it that way. Just for the record, though, the only time I intend to stifle enthusiasm is when someone is on the verge of violating the CoC. I like this place and want other people to enjoy it too. Really, you pretty much have to be asking for it for me to get even close to genuinely scornful.
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Re: How Awesome FBTB is NOT [Staff Appointed Title]

Postby Jargon » Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:01 pm

It seems like FBTB is a much more harsh place than it used to be and I don't particularly like that I've contributed to that at times. I like FBTB and the people here, but it seems the good-natured sarcasm I remember has become a lot more cutting as of late. I could be a victim of nostalgia, but I think it's worth considering.
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Re: How Awesome FBTB is NOT [Staff Appointed Title]

Postby Robzula » Sun Jan 31, 2010 11:11 pm

I don't think it's just been a steady declination into pure angry posting, it seems more to come in waves. I remember when I was first joining in here I was darn close to quitting with some of the crap that was going on... but it got better. Now it's heading back down.

I guess my point is, sure some mean things were said, sure we're getting pretty low, sure we can try to get back up, but in the end you just kinda gotta go with it.
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Re: How Awesome FBTB is NOT [Staff Appointed Title]

Postby The Brain » Sun Jan 31, 2010 11:19 pm

I've noticed that as the traffic on the forums and variety of topics increases, the general attitude of the forums becomes more positive. Conversely, when everything seems stale and only a small handful of people post regularly, there seems to be an increase of sarcasm and snide comments (which I often contribute). I don't particularly mind either way, since I love to be sarcastic and don't want to seem hypocritical, but I'm not here to flame people either and do prefer when this seems to be more of a positive community. I do think that the attitude would improve with a contest or other community event--just a suggestion.
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Re: How Awesome FBTB is NOT [Staff Appointed Title]

Postby copyright » Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:25 pm

As a member of staff, I wish to preface my statements with a "non-staff" opinion... what I say is from me.

I've been on online communities, FBTB and others, and I've seen how communities develop a personality. All the personal offense taken to lead to the animosity described in this post is sad to me, because there is nothing personal in the posts that pissed people off except for the community personality.

We are a community. In our community are different characters, each with different personalities. The personality of the owner dictates who he/she chooses on staff, the core members rally around the staff because of compatible personality traits, and the personality of the core members attracts the new core members. This is the character of the community.

What are we?

Sarcastic. Blunt. Jokesters (with a dry sense of humor). Passionate. Geekish. Thoughtful. Fanboys.

How does that affect the way the community interacts? We have in jokes that frustrate those who aren't yet in on it. We have a blunt way of posting that can either annoy regulars sometimes or put-off newbies who don't know that that is simply us. We are dryly sarcastic, which if one doesn't know it will lead to some very misunderstood statements. We are passionate and fanboys which means we speak very strongly for our views on given fanboy related topics. We are thoughtful, so we use big words and long sentences, which when mixed with sarcasm and dry humor make us seem elitist or above the regulars. Also, our ages vary greatly, which means our opinions vary with our experience.

What I am trying to say is: this is us! All of us! Every 4-6 months someone who doesn't get it that this is us gets so pissed off that they yell at us and then get mad at us for being us. And then the next step for them is to assimilate into us or leave us. Our community (our us) is what it is because of our people, our staff, our core members, and our newbies.

I read Ace's post about the picture and know that there was no personal attack on the poster but just a general desire to see more in a picture that couldn't offer it. But instead, this thread formed because offense was taken. Frankly, I am glad we all don't talk like sissies trying to be nice. Aces "worthless" response is real. A response like "Too bad that photo doesn't show more detail because I really want to see more of that sweet looking CTT." would not have been him and thus fake.

So to anyone who is unnecessarily upset: don't be. You're not going to change the community's personality... it was set 11 years ago and perpetuates to this day. Join us, we like you, we want you. Know that a single post is likely thought up, drafted, and submitted as a by-product of the personality of the community, and not because that poster was trying to get to you. And if you feel you're incompatible with our personality, then you have the ultimate freedom to step away and find a community that brings you happiness like ours does here.
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Re: How Awesome FBTB is NOT [Staff Appointed Title]

Postby dWhisper » Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:43 pm

A contest or a community build certainly gives a sort of shor term gain to traffic (assuming it's a cool idea), but historically, a lot of that traffic dies dow. A month or so after it wraps up. We've seen varying levels of participation as well as of late, so it's very hard todecide what will get everyone interested.

Yes, it's very true that when news is slow, attitudes change around here, but mostly that's because of where most of the talk lies. Take a look at the busiest parts of the site, and where you spend your time. Is it I. The raving mad opinions section, or in the building and practicing the hobby section? Okay, most opinions aren't raving or mad, but some are, and truth be told, that's okay.

What I've seen as more of the problem is this disconnect between thinking and typing. In some cases, it's just people seeing something, disagreeing and responding in Interneteese (which is to say as a complete sarlacc pit). Othertimes, it's because no thought is put into that comment, and it pains us all to look at. Sometimes, you really mean well, and it just doesn't come out right. And most of the time, we don't have anything to add, but have to go all type A and post that reply anyway. Like hitting the button in an elevator to make it go faster, it only males us look dumb to everyone around us.

So, what's the fix for it? Most of the time, it's to do nothing. That's not to say keep doing what you are, but, in fact, just don't reply. There's this marvelous thing called a back button, on the upper left of your browser (or lower left on mobile Safari, where I'm tapping this out). Don't have anythig useful to add? Then don't add it. If you do, take a minute to think what you're going to post, and a couple more to read it before you hit submit. And know that how you say it is as important as what you say (and posting in teh intrntz makes me just start deleting your posts because I can), and how everyone thinks of you, an your maturity, is based on what you type alone.

I think everyone will take quality over quantity posts, and would love a good discussion over a current or old set over some blurry picure that could be a leaked set or a poorly lit picture of some fat guy's elbow rolls. Just sayin'
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Re: How Awesome FBTB is NOT [Staff Appointed Title]

Postby Robzula » Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:46 pm

threads about complaining about the community are worthless

esp this one
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