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[POLL] STAFF Tie breaker poll for Final Four Bracket 1

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Tie breaker poll for Final Four Bracket 1

Poll ended at Thu Nov 24, 2011 10:59 am

ImageImageImageNiobrara Shaar and the Arkose VII
7
70%
ImageImageImageRaesha Ka-Lia and the Soul Snatcher
3
30%
 
Total votes : 10

Re: [POLL] STAFF Tie breaker poll for Final Four Bracket 1

Postby _nours » Sun Nov 27, 2011 2:29 pm

Legohaulic wrote:
_nours wrote:I wanted a FAIR vote, by the ones who voted in the first place: us, the people who read this blog . A democratic choice ( it's very hype these days !) not a STAFF choice by 10 people. I really like your ship AND your bounty hunter, I'm just mad about this totalitarian choice that wasn' t mentionned in the first post. Imagine, first round 59/59... second round 62/62 and third round 63/59 for you or for the other...THAT'S A FAIR CHOICE, not 10 people voting AND I didn't read this in th first post, it doesn't appear anywhere...


The staff here are entitled to their opinion the same as you and I are. I don't know whether they voted during the public round or not, but if not, this is their opportunity to cast their vote. Just because they're the ones who keep things running smoothly doesn't mean that they have any sort of bias. It sounds like you would have preferred a coin toss to decide the winner, or maybe eenie meenie miney mo? Had this vote had the opposite result, would you still be having the same reaction?

YES ! Because two people did grreat things and the staff should have let us ( all the voters) decide by ourselves with a second round, a third etc... like the Goncourt (strange french habit).
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Re: [POLL] STAFF Tie breaker poll for Final Four Bracket 1

Postby Chief » Sun Nov 27, 2011 2:50 pm

Nours' complaint is the only one I've heard so far from anyone about the Staff tiebreaker poll. Do other people feel the same way? Cuz now's your chance to voice your thoughts about it, since nours has so vocally made this an issuse here and on flickr.

How else should the tie be broken? Your suggestion of spending another 3 days letting everyone vote again is asking for a repeat of the same results. Why would anyone's opinion change from one poll to the next?

The staff poll could have been a tie as well, and thank goodness it wasn't. If anything, the results should be defining PROOF of lack of bias or conspiracy on the part of the staff, since enough of us on the staff know J4DM in person and online that we could have thrown the poll his way. Lucky for everyone on FBTB there is no grand mischievous scheme to ruin our carefully planned out contests.

This contest needs to end so we can finish up our year and get ready for a huge 2012.
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Re: [POLL] STAFF Tie breaker poll for Final Four Bracket 1

Postby _nours » Sun Nov 27, 2011 3:06 pm

Chief wrote:Nours' complaint is the only one I've heard so far from anyone about the Staff tiebreaker poll. Do other people feel the same way? Cuz now's your chance to voice your thoughts about it, since nours has so vocally made this an issuse here and on flickr.

How else should the tie be broken? Your suggestion of spending another 3 days letting everyone vote again is asking for a repeat of the same results. Why would anyone's opinion change from one poll to the next?

The staff poll could have been a tie as well, and thank goodness it wasn't. If anything, the results should be defining PROOF of lack of bias or conspiracy on the part of the staff, since enough of us on the staff know J4DM in person and online that we could have thrown the poll his way. Lucky for everyone on FBTB there is no grand mischievous scheme to ruin our carefully planned out contests.

This contest needs to end so we can finish up our year and get ready for a huge 2012.


"How else should the tie be broken? Your suggestion of spending another 3 days letting everyone vote again is asking for a repeat of the same results" Are you/we in a hurry ?

Chief wrote:Nours' complaint is the only one I've heard so far from anyone about the Staff tiebreaker poll. Do other people feel the same way? Cuz now's your chance to voice your thoughts about it, since nours has so vocally made this an issuse here and on flickr.

Oooh, "_nours complaints..." it sounds so...scornful, well, I'll take the bad guy role BUT it must be good to have a different voice even if you doesn't like its sound ...without dispising it.

edited to fix your bbcode
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Re: [POLL] STAFF Tie breaker poll for Final Four Bracket 1

Postby madLEGOman » Sun Nov 27, 2011 3:13 pm

I think the way the votes, and tie breaker staff votes are a fair policy. In the initial vote, everybody got to vote (resulting in a tie, so every vote mattered) In the tiebreaker vote, the votes were limited to staff. That's fine, it would be pointless to poll the same pool of voters again, because most people would stick to their first choice, and even if they wouldn't, well they already had their chance. I am curious though, what is the policy in case of a tie breaker tie?
Last edited by madLEGOman on Sun Nov 27, 2011 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [POLL] STAFF Tie breaker poll for Final Four Bracket 1

Postby Chief » Sun Nov 27, 2011 3:15 pm

Nours: If we didn't want your opinion heard you'd have been banned already, but that's not how we do it here. I asked for more people to add to the discussion, not to stop talking about. Please don't twist my words. Your voice is the only one we've heard so far about this issue and I asked for more people to contribute if they had the same concern.

OK let's pretend we have all the time in the world to run polls again. Please answer the question about the repeat poll: what would change if we set the same poll up again? As madlegoman just said, why would anyone change their vote?

As for a tiebreaker tie? It would be unprecedented, and clearly we need a backup backup plan. Again, we'll take suggestions.
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Re: [POLL] STAFF Tie breaker poll for Final Four Bracket 1

Postby ted @ndes » Sun Nov 27, 2011 3:31 pm

In most cases, including this one, I think the Staff poll is fair way to do a tie-break.

... One alternate suggestion for a tie-break (or "back-up plan") could be to look at the votes received during the original round with all of the entries (in this case Arkose got 95 and Soul Snatcher got 88). Shouldn't be any complaints as 'everyone' voted in that too.
Last edited by ted @ndes on Sun Nov 27, 2011 3:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [POLL] STAFF Tie breaker poll for Final Four Bracket 1

Postby Chief » Sun Nov 27, 2011 3:33 pm

We've used the "cumulative points" thing in at least one previous contest, so that's a perfectly legit idea ted!
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Re: [POLL] STAFF Tie breaker poll for Final Four Bracket 1

Postby _nours » Sun Nov 27, 2011 3:35 pm

Chief wrote:Nours: If we didn't want your opinion heard you'd have been banned already, but that's not how we do it here. I asked for more people to add to the discussion, not to stop talking about. Please don't twist my words. Your voice is the only one we've heard so far about this issue and I asked for more people to contribute if they had the same concern.

OK let's pretend we have all the time in the world to run polls again. Please answer the question about the repeat poll: why would anyone change their vote if we set the same poll up again? As madlegoman just said, why would anyone change their vote?

As for a tiebreaker tie? It would be unprecedented, and clearly we need a backup backup plan. Again, we'll take suggestions.

Ok, let's imagine a kind of big announcement on the front banner like : TIE BREAK ! LET'S DECIDE BETWEEN 2 GREAT OPPONENTS ( Ta dam!)! I'm quite sure that you would have had more voters than the first time, a kind of thrill more than "Ok, we staff are going to decide." Otherwise make a contest in which the staff decides by itself...and I won't complain about it if the rules are written.
Regards,
Nicolas/_nours
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Re: [POLL] STAFF Tie breaker poll for Final Four Bracket 1

Postby Morgan19 » Sun Nov 27, 2011 3:55 pm

Chief wrote:How else should the tie be broken? Your suggestion of spending another 3 days letting everyone vote again is asking for a repeat of the same results. Why would anyone's opinion change from one poll to the next?

Focusing on the principles rather than the specifics of this contest, as a hopefully unbiased observer in this case (since I didn't participate in the contest), I'll go ahead and toss in my support for keeping things how they are for the various reasons already covered, namely that additional rounds have the potential to just delay things with no guaranteed change in results.

Speaking from personal experience, staff tie-breakers were the norm while I was helping out at Fine Clonier and that always worked fine. I don't think we ever had someone complain about it.

I'm pretty sure I remember seeing staff tie-breakers happen at FBTB before, right? So it's not like this is the first time it's happened. The "it's not fair!!" complaint because a staff tie-breaker wasn't listed in the rules is easily rectified by including it in said rules in the future, making this whole issue moot. Easy-peesy. ;)

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Re: [POLL] STAFF Tie breaker poll for Final Four Bracket 1

Postby ImpendingDoom » Sun Nov 27, 2011 4:39 pm

To be honest your being more emotional over voting for the ship than the person who built it. I agree that staff votes are usually how ties are sorted out on other forums and contests. I also like the cumulative vote idea.
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Re: [POLL] STAFF Tie breaker poll for Final Four Bracket 1

Postby Solo » Sun Nov 27, 2011 6:59 pm

_nours: I'm sorry this didn't end how you wanted or expected. Staff votes are the default method to handle ties and we'll be sure to make that clearer up front in the future as m19 suggest. Ties are just so rare that I didn't notice they weren't directly addressed in the rules.
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Re: [POLL] STAFF Tie breaker poll for Final Four Bracket 1

Postby madLEGOman » Sun Nov 27, 2011 8:08 pm

how about celebrity guest tie breaker tiebreaker judges? =) yeah i know it's not a a very feasible idea, but it's not like mark hamil is really that busy these days
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Re: [POLL] STAFF Tie breaker poll for Final Four Bracket 1

Postby SDIronClaw » Sun Nov 27, 2011 8:12 pm

madLEGOman wrote:how about celebrity guest tie breaker tiebreaker judges? =) yeah i know it's not a a very feasible idea, but it's not like mark hamil is really that busy these days



Lol, there you go. I think staff voting on a tie breaker is fine with me. In regards to voting though, there should be a way that the builder cannot vote for his or her own model. Keeps the honest man well, honest.
"I find your lack of Lego disturbing."
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Re: [POLL] STAFF Tie breaker poll for Final Four Bracket 1

Postby CloneEmperor » Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:00 pm

Staff voting on a tie breaker seems like the most reasonable suggestion to me.

there should be a way that the builder cannot vote for his or her own model


I will respectfully disagree with you here. When I build a model for a contest, I think it would be the height of unfairness to force me to vote for someone elses model instead.
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Re: [POLL] STAFF Tie breaker poll for Final Four Bracket 1

Postby _nours » Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:32 am

Solo wrote:_nours: I'm sorry this didn't end how you wanted or expected. Staff votes are the default method to handle ties and we'll be sure to make that clearer up front in the future as m19 suggest. Ties are just so rare that I didn't notice they weren't directly addressed in the rules.

I don't think you really understand why I "moan" : first round 59/59 a tie! second round by the staff 30% / 70% : that doesn't reflect the first vote ! That's why I find this unfair, the difference is too big/wide (I don't know how to say that in english).
The second reason, and I don't say that's my way is better than yours, is that we used to vote DIRECTLY in my country and I think that you use some kind of "great electors" system in your elections ( I maybe wrong but I think must of the people in this forum are from USA)...it's maybe the reason why I can't understand letting people/staff decide for all of us .
And after all it doesn't so important...
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Re: [POLL] STAFF Tie breaker poll for Final Four Bracket 1

Postby Flynn » Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:53 am

Consider that just because the majority vote was split 50/50 doesn't mean the staff votes always were- it could've easily been 30/70 beforehand, those votes were just balanced on the other end by regular forum members. Also, there's no point to having a tie-breaker if the results are supposed to reflect the first results as well.
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Re: [POLL] STAFF Tie breaker poll for Final Four Bracket 1

Postby onions » Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:44 am

@_nours: dude, you need to chill. seriously. it's getting old.
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Re: [POLL] STAFF Tie breaker poll for Final Four Bracket 1

Postby Solo » Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:50 am

I understand that you don't think this method is fair _nours, although I don't agree with you. Judging by the responses in here it seems like the forum at large is fine with staff polls so there isn't anything more to add. Please keep in mind that this is a forum, not a political system, and we're here to have fun. The final round of polls are going up as I type, so everyone: go vote! And please for the love of chips don't let this final round end in a tie...
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Re: [POLL] STAFF Tie breaker poll for Final Four Bracket 1

Postby _nours » Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:20 am

onions wrote:@_nours: dude, you need to chill. seriously. it's getting old.

Sorry to bother, seriously. :cool:
It's quite funny that during this "passionate" (I'm a latin, you know) discussion :
1. we reached a Godwin Point (!) XD really fast.
2. people said I "moan", a word that I'd never dare to use with anyone in this forum and I "so vocally " complain...
3. I'm not AGAINST the Arkose VII ( I'd like to have made it!!!) I'm AGAINST this kind of vote; in fact I would prefer that my favourite loose by a tiny tiny difference not by 30%/70% that didn't reflect the first vote and the creativity of the 2 of them.
4. tie-break thing didn't appear in the first post or/and in the rules...and I like to know the rules before playing...like anyone I guess?
5. Did I read something 'bout a Queen Bee ? :lol:
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Re: [POLL] STAFF Tie breaker poll for Final Four Bracket 1

Postby _nours » Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:25 am

Solo wrote:I understand that you don't think this method is fair _nours, although I don't agree with you. Judging by the responses in here it seems like the forum at large is fine with staff polls so there isn't anything more to add. Please keep in mind that this is a forum, not a political system, and we're here to have fun. The final round of polls are going up as I type, so everyone: go vote! And please for the love of chip don't let this final round end in a tie...

Of course I'd like to have a tie :lol: XD ...just because ALL the ships are outstanding! And for the fight! :cool:
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