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LEGO Ideas Announces Next Set Women of NASA

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LEGO Ideas Announces Next Set Women of NASA

Postby Staff » Tue Feb 28, 2017 2:38 pm





It's Women of NASA by Maia Weinstock. Congratulations to you, Maia.

Voltron is still being considered, which is very surprising to me, but I'm hoping against all odds it becomes a reality.

Most of the others were too unrealistic in their scope to ever be considered. I mean seriously, they've stated what won't make it and most of the models that were rejected are the exact definitions of what would be considered an auto-disqualification.

The announcement covers the review period from May to September of 2016.

via LEGO Ideas blog
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Re: LEGO Ideas Announces Next Set Women of NASA

Postby PurpleDave » Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:09 pm

There's been a ton of backlash against this announcement (some legitimate, some...less so), but especially when you consider that they rejected the second Research Institute, and the first Research Institute was the last Ideas set that was nearly impossible to find at retail before it sold out...twice, this really does kinda feel like "Research Institute II: This Time We'll Try to Not Screw It Up".

As for the suggestion that most of these were guaranteed to be rejected, I mostly agree, but I think you overstate the situation a tiny bit. The LHC is small, scalable, and has no conflicts with existing licenses. Lovelace and Babbage is small and has no licensing requirements at all. Eagle 5 seems like it should be an easy call, but then I remembered that Mel Brooks promised Lucas that he'd never license Spaceballs toys in exchange for Lucas' blessing on spoofing Star Wars (not really necessary under the "satire" protections provided by the 1st Amendment, but totally enforceable once it's agreed to). Voltron actually seems like more of a long shot just based on how big it would need to be to be able to transform between five little lion-bots and one giant humanoid robot, but it's possible that it's a passion-project for one of the Ideas designers, and that's really all it requires for them to explore licensing. Ideas is not a majority vote, based on what we learned from the Exo-Suit interviews. All it takes is one designer who thinks it's possible and is willing to run with it, and then the only thing that's left is to sort out the legal side of things.
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Re: LEGO Ideas Announces Next Set Women of NASA

Postby dWhisper » Tue Feb 28, 2017 9:21 pm

There's a pretty established pattern with what is going to make it through Ideas:

- Cannot compete with an existing product or license
- Has to be, price wise, somewhere between $30 - $60 typically
- Cannot require a new expensive license to procure
- Has to have a broad enough appeal across markets to justify production

Lovelace / Babbage is basically unknown outside of a fairly small circle, and wouldn't have the crossover of, say, Caterham (cars are LEGO's bread and butter, especially outside of North America). I wouldn't have expected it to get across for that reason alone.

LHC falls more for the problem that the LHC itself is known, but not the appearance of it. A lot of people would likely know the name but never get that the set was supposed to represent it. Most of the rest fall apart on the size thing (as do the majority of Ideas sets).

As for the Spaceballs - Lucas connection, my understanding was that it was around action figures specifically. The problem here is that they'd likely have to get multiple people to sign off on the license. Brooks and MGM, Winnebago, the estate of John Candy, and even Lucas (while satire would apply to the movie, likeness and trade dress stuff would apply to toys, and that's a different set of rules from artistic works). Likely just more effort than its work.

As for the NASA set making it through, I think a bit of it is "don't mess it up" but not all that much. LEGO has done a few different space agency tie-ins at this point, but I think a bigger pull was likely the release of the movie Hidden Figures. Tagging on to that would be a big boost to the set. I'm excited for it regardless, and hope to grab a couple of extras to put away (much like I did the research lab).
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Re: LEGO Ideas Announces Next Set Women of NASA

Postby darth_fett » Wed Mar 01, 2017 6:29 am

This is complete bull pookie. Lego Ideas is such a farce.
Women of NASA; It's 5 figures & 30 parts. And it's going to be sold for $55 & 3 figures, mark my words. I never really expected Voltron to stand a chance (no matter how much I lurrrvve Voltron) but I get the feeling this is being held over just to generate buzz than any feasibility as a model. Given how many times Spaceballs has been on the chopping block I'm not surprised to see it poodoo yet again. Maybe Megabloks will pick it up and finally put Lego in its place; as the copycat releasing poodoo quality bricks - something unheard of in Lego's history but commonplace today.

Things that Megabloks were accused of 10 years ago, Lego does now. Copying designs of bricks outright? Yup. Large panels being used that have very little utility elsewhere? Guilty of that too. Releasing pieces of warped, discolored plastic? They do this one in spades now.
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Re: LEGO Ideas Announces Next Set Women of NASA

Postby PurpleDave » Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:04 am

darth_fett wrote: Women of NASA; It's 5 figures & 30 parts.


Look again. The image shown in the video may only feature the plaque, but there's a larger set in another image that shows the five minifigs attached to four vignettes. One is a desk next to vintage computer stacks with a small model of a rocket and a globe, one (with two minifigs) is a large model of a Space Shuttle in launch position, one is a large model of a satellite and a photo of a nebula, and the fourth is a huge stack of books and a lamp. They pale in comparison to the RI dinosaur, but it would be dishonest to say they're not comparable to the other two RI vignettes.

Given how many times Spaceballs has been on the chopping block I'm not surprised to see it poodoo yet again. Maybe Megabloks will pick it up and finally put Lego in its place.


Not any more likely to happen, for the same reasons the Ideas projects will never get off the ground. Best you can hope for is if Lepin rips off the Ideas design, or to find someone's instructions for a MOC you like posted online.
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Re: LEGO Ideas Announces Next Set Women of NASA

Postby Blacknight » Wed Mar 01, 2017 5:37 pm

zzzzzzzz
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Re: LEGO Ideas Announces Next Set Women of NASA

Postby The Phantom Menace » Sat Mar 04, 2017 3:33 am

I suppose what people don't like is the overtly political point making, especially with the creator stating that this is a set for boys and girls, because girls don't have any role models in the fields of STEM, whilst boys have got to learn that girls can do these subjects too. I'm a bit disappointed with the lecturing at boys (and almost putting the blame onto young boys for a lack of adult women in STEM).

To date Lego haven't done any sets on famous male scientists, so it would be false to claim that Lego are stereotyping STEM as male subjects. And after this set there will still be no famous male scientists in Lego form. I really think they should've added in some men to this set to show both sexes working equally in the same field. My concern is that male representation in the majority of Lego sets seems to be action-orientated, yet no one complains about men being stereotyped as action heroes and little else.

Lego definitely has a problem with female representation in the licensed sets. Why on earth is Princess Leia only available in the big sets (and fairly infrequently)? Do we really need a Women of Star Wars set to address this problem?
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Re: LEGO Ideas Announces Next Set Women of NASA

Postby Flynn » Sun Mar 05, 2017 1:03 pm

The Phantom Menace wrote: I'm a bit disappointed with the lecturing at boys (and almost putting the blame onto young boys for a lack of adult women in STEM).


That’s not what they’re doing, though? They’re merely pointing out that there’s a lack of representation of this sort, and making a set that helps correct that benefits both boys and girls. No one is ‘blaming’ young boys, and that’s a rather odd assertion to be making.

To date Lego haven't done any sets on famous male scientists, so it would be false to claim that Lego are stereotyping STEM as male subjects.


Is anyone actually saying that? The complaint is leveled against society/culture as a whole, not LEGO specifically. Even if we were to critique LEGO for it, though, it’s not an unfair criticism—sure, LEGO hasn’t made sets about famous scientists before, sure, but a quick Bricklink search for ‘scientist’ reveals the selection of minifigures to be predominately male (specifically 65% men, 35% women). LEGO is getting a lot better about varying gender representation in sets, but it’s a very recent trend and something that a set like this is going to do miles to improve.

My concern is that male representation in the majority of Lego sets seems to be action-orientated, yet no one complains about men being stereotyped as action heroes and little else.


This is demonstrably untrue, both on the level of “LEGO sets only feature men in action roles” (I can name offhand a dozen sets that feature workers, scientists, chefs, etc.) and “society stereotypes men only as action heroes” (that is in no meaningful sense a stereotype of men as a whole, certainly not on the same level as actual stereotypes about women).

I really think they should've added in some men to this set to show both sexes working equally in the same field.


You think this women-oriented set would’ve been improved by adding men to it?
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Re: LEGO Ideas Announces Next Set Women of NASA

Postby Blacknight » Sun Mar 05, 2017 7:10 pm

Flynn wrote:You think this women-oriented set would’ve been improved by adding men to it?


To be fair, people seem to think that many men-oriented Lego sets would be improved by adding women to them. Logically, he's only asking for exactly the same thing here: balanced representation.
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Re: LEGO Ideas Announces Next Set Women of NASA

Postby Flynn » Sun Mar 05, 2017 9:17 pm

Blacknight wrote:To be fair, people seem to think that many men-oriented Lego sets would be improved by adding women to them.


Yes, because there exists in LEGO sets an imbalance in gender representation that favors men over women. Making women-oriented sets like this one is a way of correcting that imbalance; arguing that inserting even more men into those sets would make things 'equal' is myopic to the extreme.
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Re: LEGO Ideas Announces Next Set Women of NASA

Postby dWhisper » Mon Mar 06, 2017 6:57 am

I'd be curious of the examples of "men-oriented" LEGO sets. I can't think of many, it's just that the default state for all sets has been men for awhile, and some of us think that's kind of wrong for a wide variety of reasons.
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Re: LEGO Ideas Announces Next Set Women of NASA

Postby PurpleDave » Mon Mar 06, 2017 8:31 am

There has been this backlash against society in the last 10-15 years, which is largely tied to the politicizing of American education. We now have white college students wearing white puzzle pieces to demonstrate that they feel guilt over white privilege that they don't even know how to explain. Women may be underrepresented in STEM, but they lead males in college attendance by ~10%. Girls are being told that they can do anything/everything, but I've seen complaints here and there that a side effect of this encouragement is that boys are being effectively sidelined, basically being told they should step aside to let a single generation of young women make up for centuries of patriarchy. When viewed in that light, this set does seem offensive to males.

On another site, an actual female scientist posted that she was offended by this set because it suggests that there are real scientists, and that there are female scientists. By that measure, it should be offensive to females as well.

There are certainly people who hate the idea of this set for all the wrong reasons, but there are clearly people who have problems with it because they feel it was put forth, and accepted, for all the wrong reasons.

LEGO sets have never had anything really resembling a true gender balance (to be fair, neither does real life, as Wells Fargo just released a report that claims 14% of the gender-based pay gap can be directly attributed to the fact that many women drop out of the work force to have and raise kids, or drop from full- to part-time, resulting in less work experience that would justify being paid more). The CMF line has about the best gender parity that you'll find. Where they started out with only two females in S1 (a nurse and a cheerleader, two stereotypically female roles), from S6 on they've had five females in every series of 16, and six in the Disney wave of 18 and LEGO Batman Movie wave of 20, which is just shy of a 2:1 ratio. The roles have diversified, with quite a few action-based females over the entire run. Probably the only other theme with a better gender ratio right now is the Modular series, where the current offerings average out at 3:2. In those sets, however, the females are arguably customers more than anything else. Of the five sets and dozen female minifigs, I count one celebrity, one cop, one serving coffee and pastries, and a ballerina. All of the other eight are fairly ambiguous in their roles, where the majority of the male minifigs have clearly defined jobs.

Other minifig-based themes, particularly action-oriented ones, tend to have a much higher male:female ratio. Oddly, the biggest source of female characters is just as imbalanced, as any minidoll theme has a high female:male ratio. Girls in the Friends theme have clear and varied interests that include robotics, stage magic, computers, inventing, veterinary medicine, and adventure sports. Males are often relegated to boyfriend or husband/father (when they even appear), and the boys sometimes have menial jobs, usually in the service industry, where the five main females don't appear to have or need regular employment to pay for all of their expensive hobbies. The Disney Princess theme has been even worse, as there are almost no males in any of the sets.
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Re: LEGO Ideas Announces Next Set Women of NASA

Postby The Phantom Menace » Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:39 pm

Flynn wrote:That’s not what they’re doing, though? They’re merely pointing out that there’s a lack of representation of this sort, and making a set that helps correct that benefits both boys and girls. No one is ‘blaming’ young boys, and that’s a rather odd assertion to be making.


It's an interview for the BBC that wound me up:

Maia Weinstock wrote:"I hope it sets a new example for both girls and boys," said Ms Weinstock. "Girls, in that they can and should be engineers, scientists, and mathematicians, and boys, in that they internalise at an early age that these careers are for everyone, not only men."


Which I believe is blaming young boys for this situation. That sentiment doesn't strike me as seeking gender equality. Children are an innocent party at that age, and quite frankly I've grown up in an education system where as I boy I was blamed for past generations of sexism.
It amazes me how if there are sets that only have male figures in them then girls can't play with them, but if it's all female that it's expected that boys can't make a fuss and have to put up with it.

I'm not overly happy with the way Lego has been used as a political football recently (Ai Wei Wei, UK newspaper giveaways etc). This set has seen a lot of publicity in the media (unlike all other Ideas sets barring the Research Institute) and I think Lego have unwittingly stepped into another political mess. Even the Research Institute removed any reference to it being specifically about women (something I think the original creator wanted).

I really think that this set should've have included some male scientists at NASA (people only know the names of some astronauts, not the people behind the scenes), therefore you can then have a set to show men and women working and contributing equally at an organisation, and that is a more powerful message then segregating (or elevating) women into a separate set.
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Re: LEGO Ideas Announces Next Set Women of NASA

Postby Flynn » Mon Mar 06, 2017 5:34 pm

The Phantom Menace wrote:Which I believe is blaming young boys for this situation. That sentiment doesn't strike me as seeking gender equality.


It flatly isn't blaming the boys themselves--it's blaming the society they're raised in that allows preconceptions like that to be internalized. We can argue that children are innocent, but that's exactly why like this matters--Children pick up what society gives them. If we give them the idea that women can be more than the stereotypes they're inundated with, that's the foundation they'll grow up with on an intrinsic level.

It amazes me how if there are sets that only have male figures in them then girls can't play with them, but if it's all female that it's expected that boys can't make a fuss and have to put up with it.


That's not the argument people are making--no one is saying that girls can't play with all-male sets, the point is that they are left with sets that do not represent them. If boys want sets that feature them, they have a plethora to choose from; making a single female-oriented set from a pretty minor line is not going to diminish that.

Which is the bigger point here--boys do not need more men-oriented sets. They just flatly don't, because themes already caters to them pretty overwhelmingly. I can't stand it when people act as if increasing the amount of women in a line is somehow unfair to men, because it's an attitude that assumes an imbalance doesn't already exist. Like I said, it's just incredibly myopic.
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Re: LEGO Ideas Announces Next Set Women of NASA

Postby PurpleDave » Mon Mar 06, 2017 8:03 pm

The Phantom Menace wrote:
Maia Weinstock wrote:"I hope it sets a new example for both girls and boys," said Ms Weinstock. "Girls, in that they can and should be engineers, scientists, and mathematicians, and boys, in that they internalise at an early age that these careers are for everyone, not only men."


Seriously? Holy cow. That throws a not-very-flattering light on the fact that Weinstock, unlike Alateriel before her, has reportedly never submitted anything as an Ideas project that wasn't Female Something Something.

It amazes me how if there are sets that only have male figures in them then girls can't play with them, but if it's all female that it's expected that boys can't make a fuss and have to put up with it.


There's definitely a double-standard brewing these days. Pity the poor kid who's born white and male these days because he's guilty of pretty much all of history before his umbilical cord has been cut.

Even the Research Institute removed any reference to it being specifically about women (something I think the original creator wanted).


I don't personally remember it, but I did recently read that the original proposal was titled Female Research Institute. I did a few minutes of digging and can't actually find proof one way or the other.

I really think that this set should've have included some male scientists at NASA (people only know the names of some astronauts, not the people behind the scenes), therefore you can then have a set to show men and women working and contributing equally at an organisation, and that is a more powerful message then segregating (or elevating) women into a separate set.


Oh, if you think things got ugly after they announced that this set was accepted, it would be a match compared to an inferno if they announce that there will be males in a set that probably only got voted up _because_ it was Female Something Something.

Flynn wrote:It flatly isn't blaming the boys themselves--it's blaming the society they're raised in that allows preconceptions like that to be internalized.


I agree that it's not precisely blaming them, but it does come across as scolding at best, and possibly as far as marginalizing.

We can argue that children are innocent, but that's exactly why like this matters--Children pick up what society gives them. If we give them the idea that women can be more than the stereotypes they're inundated with, that's the foundation they'll grow up with on an intrinsic level.


And if you tell them they're undesirable for being born with a Y chromosome often enough, they'll internalize it just as readily as they will if you tell them they're undesirable for being born without one. Identity politics has gotten very ugly under the goal of teaching everyone to get along.

That's not the argument people are making--no one is saying that girls can't play with all-male sets, the point is that they are left with sets that do not represent them. If boys want sets that feature them, they have a plethora to choose from; making a single female-oriented set from a pretty minor line is not going to diminish that.


Except this is the _second_ female-only set to come out of a line that hasn't even approved their 20th set yet. More importantly, the first such set was just generic female scientists. This one is the first to feature actual NASA employees, and the reason those people are being singled out for this honor isn't so much because they accomplished things that made them stand out above other NASA employees, but because they were female. They may have all been great in their own respects, but the most famous of them was Sally Ride, who may actually be the most famous person who first flew into space on a Space Shuttle mission, but by the time she boarded STS-7, even the Space Shuttle had ceased to be new and most people didn't even keep track of when new missions were launching or landing.

Which is the bigger point here--boys do not need more men-oriented sets. They just flatly don't, because themes already caters to them pretty overwhelmingly. I can't stand it when people act as if increasing the amount of women in a line is somehow unfair to men, because it's an attitude that assumes an imbalance doesn't already exist. Like I said, it's just incredibly myopic.


It's still being exclusionary. If they made sets featuring female racecar drivers, or the WNBA, or it was made clear that there was even a possibility that we might eventually see other NASA minifigs down the line, you'd have a valid point. This is something that would be massively popular if they rounded it out to include some of the big names of space travel, but if this ends up being the only NASA minifig set they ever release, it'll feel very much like it's more about what's between their legs than what they accomplished on the job.
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Re: LEGO Ideas Announces Next Set Women of NASA

Postby Flynn » Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:33 pm

PurpleDave wrote:Seriously? Holy cow. That throws a not-very-flattering light on the fact that Weinstock, unlike Alateriel before her, has reportedly never submitted anything as an Ideas project that wasn't Female Something Something.


Wow, how dare a woman focused on creating better female representation only make Ideas projects centered around female representation.

And if you tell them they're undesirable for being born with a Y chromosome often enough, they'll internalize it just as readily as they will if you tell them they're undesirable for being born without one.


Telling boys "girls are great, too!" =/= telling boys that they suck for being boys. It's a little upsetting that we apparently treat praise of women as some sort of criticism against men.

Except this is the _second_ female-only set to come out of a line that hasn't even approved their 20th set yet.


Fun fact: if you tally up the minifigs released in the LEGO Ideas sets so far, you get 17 men and 8 women. Somehow I doubt a second female-only set is somehow grossly unfair to men.

It's still being exclusionary.


Yes, which is absolutely fine in this case. This is the same sort of argument that accuses black colleges of being racist for not accepting white applicants, which completely misses the point that the reason that the reason these exclusionary things exist in the first place is to create a space for underprivileged minorities who are already excluded in society. Female-only sets become an important thing for LEGO because for some 30 years male-only sets were the default, barring the odd lone female minifigure or grossly stereotypical 'girl' lines. The vast majority of sets in LEGO's history are male-oriented, making these relatively rare female-oriented sets important. Arguing female-oriented sets should have more men in them misses the point of why female-oriented sets exist in the first place.
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Re: LEGO Ideas Announces Next Set Women of NASA

Postby Crusader » Tue Mar 07, 2017 6:54 am

I think if the set was an interesting build as well as politically correct, people would have less trouble with it. It seems like it got the green light because it scores some social justice points, not because it's a great set.

However, most of us in the community have bought plenty of mediocre Star Wars or Super Hero sets simply because the minifigs were interesting. Why should Ideas be any different? Lego will get some nice PR out of it, articles will be written, not that many sets will be made, but probably not enough for the tiny segment of that will actually want it.

It's an easy pass for me. I can't imagine my daughter actually playing with a set this dull.
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Re: LEGO Ideas Announces Next Set Women of NASA

Postby dWhisper » Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:57 am

I find it kind of curious that we're judging the build and quality of a set that hasn't had the final version even revealed yet. We have what was submitted to Ideas, and the messaging that it was just the user submission is all over it... like every other Ideas set that has been made.
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Re: LEGO Ideas Announces Next Set Women of NASA

Postby Crusader » Tue Mar 07, 2017 2:10 pm

It certainly could be a better set in the end, and I hope it will be. But wasn't the internet invented so we can bark out uninformed judgments and hastily formed opinions???
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Re: LEGO Ideas Announces Next Set Women of NASA

Postby dWhisper » Tue Mar 07, 2017 2:31 pm

Technically, it was invented as a way for smart people to communicate very informed opinions and knowledge back and forth (academics, mostly).

However, dynamite was invented to help clear away rocks to build bridges, and not make bombs, so intent isn't always close to outcome.
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