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Ben Affleck Cast As The Next Batman

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Re: Ben Affleck Cast As The Next Batman

Postby that guy » Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:00 pm

And while I know he's sworn off ever being in one of the movies I keep waiting for this cruel joke to get worse by hearing the words "and now Matt Damon has signed on as the boy wonder"....... :facepalm:
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Re: Ben Affleck Cast As The Next Batman

Postby jfears2 » Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:17 pm

Batman was also around long before Adam West played the role. You can look it up, Batman was intended to be a crime fighter in a dark and bleak world which is how he was written in comics in his early years, it was around 1960, just before West was cast in the television series that tone of Batman and the Batman world changed, and obviously wasn't until years and years later that it revisited it's dark roots starting in 1989 with Tim Burton writing the movie for that year and the next before they again shelved the dark tone and went light to try and appeal to a different younger crowd... and of course for more money :)

that guy wrote:And while I know he's sworn off ever being in one of the movies I keep waiting for this cruel joke to get worse by hearing the words "and now Matt Damon has signed on as the boy wonder"....... :facepalm:


please no :( I don't think my eyes and ears could take the pain haha
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Re: Ben Affleck Cast As The Next Batman

Postby Willco66 » Tue Aug 27, 2013 4:54 pm

Brainslugged wrote:Plus there should be an automatic ban on any actors who've already played Marvel or DC superheroes to be able to cast for another superhero role.


I think that several of those people have done pretty well with their second role. Chris Evans is probably the poster boy for that.
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Re: Ben Affleck Cast As The Next Batman

Postby dWhisper » Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:04 pm

he was around long before, but the world itself wasn't any more dark or bleak than what was portrayed in any other title. The origin of Batman was in Detective comics, and it was designed more on crime fighting pulp novels, rooster Tracy, and similar genre forms of the day. He was far less the conflicted superhero we see today, and much more like a Punisher for his time. He killed, a lot, used guns, and was the good guy, nothing more.

The character softened with the introduction of Robin, the stories got a bit sillier, and the world a bit lighter. Mostly, that was just propaganda for World War II, but it stuck around and defined the character. More than that, for a huge part of the history of Batman, he was defined less as an entity alone and more in the team-up comic he had with Superman, Worlds Finest Comics.

That general form stuck around up until then Adam West Days, when it became campy, and then fell out of favor again. But around it, there was always a somewhat "upbeat" note to it, where it was more about Bruce the playboy and teaching while stopping crime. Adam West was certainly over-the-top, but it wasn't a great departure from the comics (but I will concede that the campy nature was TV first, comics second).

But really, the point is, more than anyone else, Adam West is associated with Batman more than any other actor (though when you hear Batman, I'm willing to bet you actually hear Kevin Conroy in your head)... those shows were campy and terrible, but lived on for years through re-runs, Nick-at-Night, and so many references elsewhere that it's still the defacto thought to most people outside the nerdverse in general. And they had outsized impacts on pop culture in general... the entire jokes of *Bam* *Pow* were used elsewhere, but they caught on there.

The modern dark-and-gritty Batman didn't really come about until the 80s, and the neo-Gothic was really a product of Tim Burton more than Frank Miller (who was the obvious influence for the more recent reboot). Just saying, not dark-and-gritty is just as much a part of the history as the gritty, if not more of one.
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Re: Ben Affleck Cast As The Next Batman

Postby buriedbybricks » Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:38 pm

To add on to dWhisper's comment, the Bat's softer side took all of about 10-20 issues to surface originally. About the same amount of issues his creators claim took to fully develop him as a character.

Let's not overlook that at his darkest he's still a guy who dresses up like a bat, has child sidekicks and top-notch enemies like a fat, disgruntled guy with a bird fetish and an equally unhealthy obsession with umbrellas... for some reason.
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Re: Ben Affleck Cast As The Next Batman

Postby jfears2 » Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:05 pm

"Campy" is definitely the word I was searching for when I was trying to describe the era(s) where I disliked the movies. And although the early 90s movies were no where near as campy as the Adam West era I still feel as they moved away from where at least I feel Batman originated. I will concede that most, if not anyone around in the time period of the 60's would see Adam West and Batman as synonymous with each other. I certainly wasn't around then, nor when Batman was created, we can simply read about what the creators, writers, and artists have said over the many years of the character's existence.

Starting in 1969, writer Dennis O'Neil and artist Neal Adams made a deliberate effort to distance Batman from the campy portrayal of the 1960s TV series and to return the character to his roots as a "grim avenger of the night."[45] O'Neil said his idea was "simply to take it back to where it started. I went to the DC library and read some of the early stories. I tried to get a sense of what Kane and Finger were after."[46]


Kane and Finger were the original creators of Batman, however Finger got the shaft and it seems from past interviews Kane took all the fame. "Grim avenger of the night" is probably a better description of what Batman was intended to be (quote taken from Wikipedia so take it for what it's worth). I agree that the dark and gritty style of Batman may not be the majority of his existence, but I still stand by what I've read that in his early existence, maybe not in his first appearance, but when the character first took major form he was, as the quote above states "Grim Avenger of the Night"

We may just have to agree to disagree on the original tone of Batman, but I for one, love the dark and gritty version of Batman, and hopefully the new films will keep with that tone. I know with Batman teaming with Superman and others in the next few movies may move toward neutral, but I hope any future solo movies align with the most recent grim tone.
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Re: Ben Affleck Cast As The Next Batman

Postby CaptainFordo » Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:04 pm

jfears2 wrote:You all beat me to the punch. Everyday I see his face as the first thing on top I'm beginning to hate the idea of him as Batman more and more and more...

I wasn't too thrilled when I first heard the news, I actually thought it was a joke when I heard it on the radio. As a kid I slowly began to hate the Batman franchise after each movie following Batman Returns. Batman is supposed to be dark and dreary, it's what makes you feel for the pain and anguish the character endures only to fall in love with the success and sacrifice given by the character later, but then we were given the likes of Val Kilmer and George Clooney and supporting actors such as Jim Carrey and Arnold Schwarzenegger... my god I thought they have ruined Batman with ill-fated attempts at pushing humor into the genre and appealing to a larger audience for money alone. Similar to what happened to poor Indiana Jones in the last movie... in the words of South Park, they are literally raping Indiana.

Then we got Batman Begins, I remember the preview and thinking hell yes, the return to the dark and dreary Batman world as it should be, the Dark Knight if you will. And I wasn't let down, I knew Christian Bale (see American Psycho) could play the character they way it was intended, I knew Christopher Nolan could co-write and direct Batman the way it should be.

And so we return to this, Ben "Pancake Head" Affleck (see South Park for the reference). Which I'm positive will be another ill-fated attempt at injecting humor into a role where humor is not intended to be. And yes, maybe he can play the socialite Bruce Wayne, but Bruce Wayne is not humorous, he is suave and sophisticated. Instead we will see another airheaded, tree hugging, a**hat of an actor who has no business playing this role.

.. of course this is just my opinion, which has only become more sour with seeing that smiling mug for the past few days.

End rant :D


I kind of doubt they'll go overboard with the humour. One of the main criticisms levelled at "Man of Steel" was it was too po-faced and not light-hearted enough, and that's SUPERMAN. If the same creative team takes a similar approach to Batman, I hardly think they're likely to make him the "funny one" of the two characters =P
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Re: Ben Affleck Cast As The Next Batman

Postby dWhisper » Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:15 pm

I wasn't alive in the 60s either, but remember watching Batman on TBS and Nick-at-Night during summer vacation in the late 80s, before we got bat nipples and Ice to See you, so I still remember it. For the longest time, that was really the only interaction we had with it.

As for the Burton-era films, they were certainly campy, just in completely different ways. I loved Nickelson as the Joker, but that was far more like taking the old 60s villain and putting some edge on him. He was a criminal first, and it was less psychopath than the early comics or later Miller-inspired psychopath or Starlin's Joker from "A Death in the Family" (still probably the best Batman story ever).

Batman, as a character, has always been fairly one-trick and lacking depth. The real depth came from Bruce Wayne and the conflict around who he was, and the persona he had. That's where the Nolan films did well (especially in Batman Begins), and where the older Burton ones messed up. Reading back in the golden age comics, it was expanding into the land of Bruce Wayne that really made the character what he is, which also meant cutting down on the "Grim Avenger" portion a lot (like when they introduced the 'Batman does not kill, he only indirectly causes the deaths of thousands by his inaction' rule).


My point wasn't that the character isn't dark and gritty now, he certainly is, it was that it's not the defining point of his character. But even with stuff like Batman: TAS and Batman Beyond (both amazing cartoon series), it had a darker tone, but was not wholly defined by it.

The only real beef I ever had with the newer movies is that they discarded everything about Batman beyond his ability to punch, and distilled Bruce Wayne down to a deeply damaged, but simpler, individual than he deserved. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed those movies, but you always saw through the "act" that was Bruce Wayne in those movies. In the older movies, in the comics, and in general the history, Bruce Wayne was far more important than the Bat was for making it work. Because it was about an ordinary guy (and his billions of dollars) going against extraordinary people.

In fact, that's the whole crux of the Superman vs. Batman storyline... it's that the regular guy beat up the immortal god. And to tie it back to the original topic, I think that's what Affleck can actually deliver in the role. An older Bruce Wayne that's mixed in a little bit of bitterness, a bit of sarcasm that bitterness brings, and a lot more baggage from having to play the playboy just as much as having to play the bat.

And I still stand by the fact that casting wasn't the problem with DareDevil... it's that DareDevil just sucks as a character. Some Super Heroes just aren't well designed for stories by themselves. Green Lantern would be another... that movie was terrible, but Ryan Reynolds did as good of a job as he could with Hal Jordan. The Incredible Hulk is another example, a character that sucks on his own but did quite well in an ensemble.

So maybe what I'm saying is I welcome seeing Affleck in the Super Friends reboot, eventually.
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Re: Ben Affleck Cast As The Next Batman

Postby Mister Ed » Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:43 pm

I thought the problem (or at least one of the problems) with Daredevil was that Affleck showed less emotion than the mask he had to wear. I think his acting WAS horrid in that movie. But of course, I could be misremembering, as I certainly haven't subjected myself to it again recently. That's not to say I think he's a bad actor, or that he can't handle this role. I just don't think his poor performance in Daredevil can be passed off as him doing his best with a bad character.

Also, I take issue with your appraisal of Green Lantern. While I would agree that Ryan Reynolds wasn't the problem, I diesgaree that the character of Green Lantern was. Green Lantern works just fine in solo stories. Where he doesn't work is with a lousy script, which the GL movie had. If Hal Jordan is written as a quitter, you've already messed up the concept, no matter HOW well the actor plays him as a quitter.
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Re: Ben Affleck Cast As The Next Batman

Postby dWhisper » Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:47 pm

You're partially right, and you are remembering it wrong. Compared to what came after... Affleck as DareDevil most certainly was worse than other Marvel characters. But remember... this was before the Marvel Cinematic Universe was even a thing. More than that, DareDevil is a wooden and boring superhero... the story (much like Bruce Wayne vs. Batman) is more about Matt Murdock than DD. The big problem with the theatric release is that almost all of the story of Murdock the lawyer was cut for time with DareDevil and the origin story. There's a Director's Cut that greatly improves on those problems, and Affleck does an excelent job as Murdock (while DareDevil still sucks).

My record on hating on Green Lantern is sprinkled throughout my history (despite wanting a GL minifig)... he's a terrible hero that squanders what could be an amazing power. The movie was certainly awful (and that story was just... bleh), but Hal Jordon always was a jerk, and Reynolds knows how to play a jerk. Their mistake was basically trying to make Iron Man but in green.

But overall, the comic character (outside of having the most rediculous mix of weaknesses ever... yes, I know, since retconned out, but yeah, when you can be put down by a #2 Pencil, you're a crap hero) is just forgettable. He has a ring that can make anything, and all he ever really makes is weapons. He can fly, but still uses his ring to make a jet now and again... I'm just not convinced that you can really make a decent story with that character... only when one of them goes crazy and tries to blow up the DC universe
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Re: Ben Affleck Cast As The Next Batman

Postby Mister Ed » Thu Aug 29, 2013 6:14 am

dWhisper wrote:There's a Director's Cut that greatly improves on those problems, and Affleck does an excelent job as Murdock (while DareDevil still sucks).


It must be my memory, then because my recollection was that Affleck was at his MOST wooden when he was playing Murdock.

dWhisper wrote:but Hal Jordon always was a jerk, and Reynolds knows how to play a jerk.


Hal Jordan has NOT always been a jerk, but yeah, he has been portrayed that way. However, even as a jerk, he has always been determined. Reynolds (and I think this came down to the script more than his performance) played him as a insecure quitter who had to be convinced that he could step up to the responsibility.

dWhisper wrote:But overall, the comic character (outside of having the most rediculous mix of weaknesses ever... yes, I know, since retconned out, but yeah, when you can be put down by a #2 Pencil, you're a crap hero) is just forgettable. He has a ring that can make anything, and all he ever really makes is weapons. He can fly, but still uses his ring to make a jet now and again... I'm just not convinced that you can really make a decent story with that character... only when one of them goes crazy and tries to blow up the DC universe.


Eh, agree to disagree I suppose. As one of the highest selling DC heroes, I think it has been demonstrated that you CAN, in fact, tell a story that a lot of people will find entertaining with the character. The one we got in the movie just wasn't one.
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Re: Ben Affleck Cast As The Next Batman

Postby dWhisper » Thu Aug 29, 2013 6:38 am

Highest selling DC hero is kind of like being the highest rated show on The Hub. Yeah, you're #1, but that's what, like seventeen people?
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Re: Ben Affleck Cast As The Next Batman

Postby Joedward » Thu Aug 29, 2013 7:06 am

I think Ben's going to knock it out of the park, and I can't wait.

I also can't stand the blanket hate that the internet seems throw down over ever new change to what wasn't really all that great in the first place.
Nolan's Batman films were good. Great, even. But Bale was hardly the standout in any of those films.

Also.

Anne Hathaway as Catwoman
Heath Ledger as the Joker
Mark Ruffalo as Bruce Banner/Hulk
Chris Evans as Captain America after he was already the Human Torch

How about Michael gorram Keaton as the gorram BATMAN?
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Re: Ben Affleck Cast As The Next Batman

Postby Mister Ed » Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:50 am

dWhisper wrote:Highest selling DC hero is kind of like being the highest rated show on The Hub. Yeah, you're #1, but that's what, like seventeen people?


Okey-doke. Clearly no point in discussing it with you any further. I can probably come up with as much with dismissive hyperbole as I'll ever need on my own. ;)
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Re: Ben Affleck Cast As The Next Batman

Postby dWhisper » Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:10 am

Come on, that one was obviously sarcasm (also loosely based on a Family Guy joke from the first Star Wars special).

But Green Lantern is to the DC universe what The Incredible Hulk is to Marvel. Well know, good seller, but not one of the A-List heroes. And unlike Iron Man, which had enough great character and backstory to jump from the B-List to the A-List... Green Lantern is more defined by the everything else. There was hope that they could add it into the latest movie, with the Corps being featured into the story, but that was effectively squandered.

Ultimately, GL is much like Hulk (defined by the Avengers) or even Wolverine (defined by X-Men), in that he's a prominent cog in the Lantern Corps (which would be a good movie) or the JLA (which can be easily established without a stand-alone movie for GL).

I'd like to see DC take some risks (also take away movies from Nolan and Snyder until they can prove to build characters as much as action)... give us a Wonder Woman movie, Aquaman, or even a Martian Manhunter movie, and build up something other than Batman or Superman.
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Re: Ben Affleck Cast As The Next Batman

Postby Flynn » Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:25 am

dWhisper wrote:those shows were campy and terrible


I beg to differ. The '66 show is IMO absolutely hilarious and always nice to pop on for a good dose of silliness. It's a comedy show, and I think it succeeds greatly at being that (for a while, at least- there is a point where it just gets stupid).

I also disagree strongly on the idea that the Burton films messed up with Bruce Wayne...IMO I actually find him more interesting there than in the Nolan films (and probably the most interesting thing about the Burton films is how they set up an intricate set of parallels as a way of expanding upon Wayne's character...you learn as much about him through how he's reflected in the Joker, Penguin, or Catwoman).
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Re: Ben Affleck Cast As The Next Batman

Postby Mister Ed » Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:37 am

dWhisper wrote:Ultimately, GL is much like Hulk (defined by the Avengers) or even Wolverine (defined by X-Men), in that he's a prominent cog in the Lantern Corps (which would be a good movie)



Actually, I will agree with you on the notion that a Green Lantern Corps film would be a good idea. I may not agree that GL absolutely can't make for an interesting movie on his own, but I do think that emphasizing him as the human representative of a massive, universe spanning alien organization, that has other cool members, and does cool stuff in outer space, makes for a much more promising movie concept than what we got, where we basically only got glimpses of that. I loved the Green Lantern Animated series, myself, and Hal was barely ever on Earth for the whole thing.
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Re: Ben Affleck Cast As The Next Batman

Postby dWhisper » Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:21 pm

Flynn wrote:
dWhisper wrote:those shows were campy and terrible


I beg to differ. The '66 show is IMO absolutely hilarious and always nice to pop on for a good dose of silliness. It's a comedy show, and I think it succeeds greatly at being that (for a while, at least- there is a point where it just gets stupid).


Camply and terrible does not mean unenjoyable. The shows were, from a production values and quality point-of-view, terrible... on purpose. The terrible was part of the campiness, it's how they sold it. Contrast that to something like Star Trek, which had bad special effects, but for a reason (they had like $6 for a special effects budget). They did what they could with it...

Batman, by contrast, purposefully went for that kind of craft, and pushed for the whole "it's so bad it's good."

I also disagree strongly on the idea that the Burton films messed up with Bruce Wayne...IMO I actually find him more interesting there than in the Nolan films (and probably the most interesting thing about the Burton films is how they set up an intricate set of parallels as a way of expanding upon Wayne's character...you learn as much about him through how he's reflected in the Joker, Penguin, or Catwoman).


Penguin or Catwoman, moreso, but there was so little of Bruce Wayne being anything other than actually lovesick in the first one that it wasn't really part of the story. Almost all of the action surrounded the Bat, either in the Batcave, or the Batmobile, or fighting, etc. Bruce Wayne was an afterthought. There was more in the second one, but it was still mostly about the villains working against Batman, not the role that Bruce Wayne had in contrasting Batman.
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Re: Ben Affleck Cast As The Next Batman

Postby Flynn » Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:54 pm

It's very understated (mostly communicated via the subtleties of Keaton's performance and the moments of contemplation we get), but it is there. I think what's crucial to understand about Burton's take on Batman/Wayne is that there is no real separation between the two- they're two sides of the same coin. Batman is a reflection of Wayne just as Wayne is a reflection of Batman, so each one reflexively comments on each other, building the character through the reflection (which is then, of course, further explored using the broken halves of his villains- Joker/Napier, Penguin/Cobblepot, Catwoman/Kyle. Not for nothing is his origin directly intertwined with Joker's). It's not development that's done in a traditional fashion, but then there's not a lot about the Burton Batman films that can really be deemed "traditional".


As for the '66 show, no one goes into a program intending to make it "campy and terrible". They made it intentionally silly, to be sure, but silly =/= terrible. I think what throws a lot of people off about it is that it almost behaves like a traditional sitcom but sans laugh track and with a satire of adventure and superhero comics laid over on top of it.
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Re: Ben Affleck Cast As The Next Batman

Postby Darth Caedus » Thu Aug 29, 2013 3:43 pm

My thoughts on the matter: This isn't like the Heath Ledger scenario at all, where everyone flipped out at his casting and then he proved to be incredible. Ben Affleck has proven time and again that he is no more than the essence of mediocrity. The Town is a good film, but not a great one, and treading similar subject matter to The Departed, but doing it with much less ability. His most recent film, Argo, for which he has been the most lauded, was a bunch of xenophobic, nostalgia-baiting, jingoistic garbage. His depiction of Iran is only marginally better than its portrayal in 300. Marginally.

Most important of all, Ben Affleck is simply a fundamentally dull actor. Indeed, the best things about The Town are also not Ben Affleck's acting - Postlethwaite's Florist, Renner's sociopath, and of course, the wonderful Jon Hamm, who would have been a much, much better Batman. Ironically, he is therefore a great fit for the weakly grimdark DC world Zach Snyder has begun with Meh Of Steel. A better actor could have given this franchise hope, but it is not to be. Even if they get Bryan Cranston for Lex Luthor, Snyder's ineptitude and Goyer's crappy writing could easily lead to his talents being wasted (similar to how he was given nothing to do as the villain in the Total Recall remake).

One thing is certain now, above all: when it comes to comic book movies, the Marvel Movie Universe reigns supreme.
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