Batman on film: Past, Present and Future

[Logan]

For the record, (and not to go back into it..), I think "Batman" when I think of the Burton films. I kind of toss away most of "Batman Returns"..

Funny you mention the "Batman Beyond" animated series... I was watching that the other night. Good stuff, and Mark Hamill voicing the Joker was excellent work (and there's the FBTB tie-in!!!).

Maybe it's just me (I alluded to it previously in this thread), but there is a great similarity that I take as an homage to the original in a Joker scene from each film ("Batman" and "The Dark Knight").

Batman: Joker standing in the street as the crowd scatters. Batman piloting the Batwing (still underappreciated in its perfect silhouette), nosediving down the narrow street, essentially playing chicken with Joker, who pulls the gun from his pants waistband (with the ridiculous barrel, very straight from the comics), and one bullet downs the plane, cackling the whole time. "Come and get me".

The Dark Knight: I don't think I need to talk about the truck and Batpod scene.. we know it. I just wanted to draw that parallel in everyone's mind. "Come on, hit me... hit me.."

[CaptainPike]

I never really cared for the Burton films because they didn't feel like the Batman comics of the 70s that I grew up with. The Nolan movies have much more of the Dark Knight feel though they too go too far for me in some areas. For example why the heck can't the movie Batman wear a 2 color outfit like he has for 70 years in the comics?

I much prefer the the recent animated shows to any of the movies. Batman The Animated Series is very stylish and captures the pulpy film noir aspect of Batman. The Batman is high energy and stylized similar to the producers earlier Jackie Chan Adventures. Batman: the Brave & the Bold is just pure fun teaming Batman up with all kinds of favorite DC comics characters. I finally get to see Kamandi and Dr. Canus animated - WIN!

[Jay]

Yeah, I've seen all episodes of Batman: The Brave and the Bold and I absolutely love it. While some may not like the light hearted, cartoony Batman, I happen to think it's funny, loaded with action and packed with all kinds of stuff DC fans would love. Overall, very entertaining.

[thepatient]

The first thing that comes to mind thinking back on the past Batman incarnations is Julie Newmar made the hottest Catwoman ever.

She was a hottie in her prime. Easily one of the sexiest women ever. The best part she ever did was playing the devil in an episode of Twilight Zone. Of course these days- not so hot. A few shots of whiskey might make her do-able though.

[Jedd the Jedi]

Oh, thepatient, keep it PG please! Anyway, thanks for bringing up the various animated series. While I enjoyed them to varying degrees, I won't go so far as to say that they were better than all the films-The Dark Knight still takes that number one spot for me. However, I thought Batman: The Animated Series was groundbreaking. You could so easily forget that you were watching a cartoon, it was wonderful. Despite keeping to the limits of Saturday morning animation, it was still brutal in parts. I loved the surrealism of "Perchance to Dream" and "Over the Edge", the latter showing Batgirl's death before the first commercials go on. The characterisation was profound and the voice acting just spectacular. Kevin Conroy totally puts Christian Bale's insipid growling to shame, and Mark Hamill is the best the Joker has sounded. He practically perfected the menacing laugh, and not once did it sound silly. There's also another big reason why the Batman universe is forever indebted to Batman TAS: Harley Quinn. The idea that the Joker's fawning gun moll was actually his psychiatrist mentally manipulated into a dependent and abusive relationship is pure genius. I also like how she and Poison Ivy team up, Harley a foil to Ivy's perpetual seriousness. Plus, the lesbian undertones are very sexy.

I loved Batman's portrayal in the Justice League animated TV series. I think he served the purpose Batman was always supposed to serve in the Justice League, the dark loner who is still an invaluable member. The dynamics between the famously anti-social Batman and the other League members were very well portrayed, particularly between him and Superman. I also liked that there was a palpable romantic connection between Wonder Woman and Batman. He could be the warrior knight to her princess, and perhaps he showed her the place men occupy in the world.

[Logan]

The dynamics between the famously anti-social Batman and the other League members were very well portrayed, particularly between him and Superman.

This connection is also played up (the Superman / Batman dynamic) in a number of graphic novels, notably Frank Miller's "The Dark Knight Returns" and "The Dark Knight Strikes Again". There is also a great storyline in "Batman: Hush" by Jim Lee and Jeph Loeb.

[Jedd the Jedi]

You're right Logan, Batman has served as a stoic foil to Superman ever since the two teamed up, and I especially liked Jeph Loeb's treatment of this in the Hush storyline. However, something like that would've been difficult to translate onto film. A three-part crossover between the Batman and Superman animated series and among my favourite episodes is the "Batman/Superman story" aka "World's Finest", a marvellous tale in which the Joker gets his hands on a dragon carved entirely out of Kryptonite and tries to sell his Kryptonian-killing services to Lex Luthor, while Bruce Wayne travels to Gotham to embark on a partnership between Lexcorp and Wayne Industries to develop space exploration robotics, which Lex of course uses for weapons. One can actually watch it on YouTube in separate parts.

Speaking of YouTube, there are also a fair amount of very good Batman fanfilms out there on YouTube, which shows that even with no budget dedication and sheer fanboyness can produce some awesome results. My favourites are linked below:

Batman: Dead End Definitely one of the best-produced fanfilms around, Batman dukes it out with Predators and Aliens. Nice!

World's Finest Done by the same production team as Batman Dead End headed by Sandy Corolla, the plot of this fan trailer pretty much mirrors that of various Batman/Superman stories but is very well acted and filmed.

Grayson I'd suffer hell if I didn't mention this groundbreaking fan film. It looks like a vanity project, but one can see all the work (and money) put into this fan trailer for a film where rooster Grayson avenges the death for Batman, returning to his Robin persona.

And lastly, Batman Legends Poorer production quality than the previous films, but very good characterization of a myriad of villains, plus one of the few fanfilms out there to show the Bat family in action together. The Joker looks to be Andrew Koenig of Star Trek fame who also played the Joker in Batman: Dead End.

[Duckman]

Am I the only one that likes the Burton films?

One thing, though, I don't get why so many people like Christian Bale as Batman. IMO, he's probably the worst one yet (Okay, okay, second to Clooney). As Bruce Wayne, he sounds like Keanu Reeves, and as Batman he sounds like he has lung cancer. I always like Michael Keaton as Batman.

Yeah, I'd have to agree, I can't stand Christian Bale, he's an egotistical annoyance. Michael Keaton is by far, one of the greatest most under-rated actors of all time. Absolutely the best Batman performance ever.

--
BRAD PITT FOR THE JOKER!!!!!!!!!!
--

On a different tangent, The Joker is by far the greatest comic villian of all time. He reminds me in a way of Carnage from the Spiderman series, evil, happy to be evil, carefree and doing whatever the f*** he wants to do, so long as it involves a twisted fun sense of destruction and death. The perfect juxtaposition for The Batman.
The Killing Joke was certainly my favourite of all the Batman comics, and definately relates well to the role of Heath Ledger, but yet Jack Nicholson brought a sense of the fun craziness back, but lets be honest, Jack was too 'large' for the Joker, and too flabby around the face. Heath was perfect. But I think the greatest Joker performance would be given by none other than Brad Pitt... believe it or not.

[Jettbacca]

Brad Pitt would be interesting, but girls aren't supposed to go crazy over the Joker, he's supposed to be creepy. I just can't see that happening.

[Masta' Bo]

I can't see it happening because he's a terrible actor...

My 3 centz.

[Dr Scott]

I remember thinking way back in the day that a young Brad Dourif would have made a great Joker. He's got the head-shape. Unfortunately I think he probably goes in the terrible actor category if I'm honest. He's kind of a ham.

[Bertramtalespinner]

I think Brad gets roles that are similar and that call for him to play over the top types. He's not exactly leading man looks wise, so he gets character roles. I really like him. But then I like a lot of character actors more than the big stars. Anybody can be pretty, these folk have to really work. Brad's in a similar boat with the fellow who played Gollum. Brilliant performer. Wormtongue was a smaller role, but he nailed Grima.

[SkwerlJones]

Michael Keaton? Christian Bale? Why are we talking about those actors? Are all of you forgetting the brilliance that is Adam West? Definately the best Batman. Who else has shark repellent bat spray? Lets see that Tumbler make a shark explode!

[Jedd the Jedi]

Absolutely no to Joker being played by Brad Pitt. First off, he's far less versatile than his choice of roles suggests (even then he's often the hunky love interest) and the Joker is Heath's creation and should remain untouched. And for the record, I think Christian Bale was brilliant. George Clooney knew it was a joke, so I'll forgive him slightly there. Sure, the lung cancer thing didn't go on too well, but Bale invested so much emotional energy into the role and took it very seriously. Most actors can only pull off either Batman (Michael Keaton) or Bruce Wayne (Val Kilmer). Christian Bale does both beautifully. He's also an impressive fighter and did some stunts and most of the martial arts work himself.

To put the train back on the rails so to speak, what does everyone think of a Batman 3? Nothing is confirmed, but apparently Christopher Nolan, his brother Jonathan and David S. Goyer are sitting down to brainstorm story ideas for a possible follow-up to The Dark Knight. Reports have suggested everyone from Rhona Mitra to Cher (?!?) playing Catwoman and from Johnny Depp to David Tennant as The Riddler. Personally, I'd love to see Catwoman in a film again, though Chris Nolan has claimed that he was put off (understandably) by the Halle Berry film. I think an exotic, fairly unknown actress like Stana Katic (Quantum of Solace) or Moon Bloodgood (Terminator Salvation, Eight Below) should play the slinky feline fatale. I think Johnny Depp would make a great and very creepy Riddler, but he's tied up with Pirates of the Caribbean 4, which he's already signed onto. I'd like to see Andy Serkis (Gollum in the LOTR films) or Eddie Izzard (Reepicheep in The Chronicles of Narnia: Prince Caspian) as The Mad Hatter, actually.

[Flynn]

Eddie Izzard in a Batman film would be AWESOME.

Also, I saw TDK again recently, and I'll say that Bale wasn't as bad as I remember him. In fact, I thought he was actually really good, and is probably my second favorite Batman now (I still love Michael Keaton's performance).

As for a 3rd Batman film, I'd love to see Penguin in there. I know that Nolan said Peguin was too unrealistic for the films, but I seriously don't get that. All he is is a crime boss with a thing for birds, and if done right, he'd be a perfect addition to the film. Maybe he'd replace Maroni or someone else as a mob boss or something.

[Jedd the Jedi]

That's good that you've had a slight change of heart towards Christian Bale. Eddie Izzard would indeed be awesome, but he could also make it silly. Personally, I don't quite like the Penguin as a villain enough. In the Nolan films, the villains have been spectacular and not entirely plausible but very, very grounded in reality. Oswald Cobblepot liking birds is perhaps not significant enough a quirk to justifiy him being in a Nolan Batman film. I do wish Harvey Dent was kept alive, before I saw the film I was under the impression that Two-Face would undoubtedly be the villain of a third film.

On a separate note, my best friend lent me the comic book adaptation of Batman (1989) by Dennis O'Neil and with art by Jerry Ordway and colours by Steve Oliff. It's the best comic book adaptation of a film I have read bar none. The art is amazing and the story is actually a teensy bit better than the film itself, with some very dramatic and well-drawn panels. Of course, by now this volume is very rare but it is worth searching for. Ordway also pulls off the likenesses of Michael Keaton, Jack Nicholson and Kim Basinger incredibly well. I didn't enjoy the film itself that much (mostly because the Joker killed Batman's parents, Alfred let Vicki Vale into the Batcave and Batman goes around happily killing people) but I did enjoy the comic adaptation.

[Flynn]

I didn't enjoy the film itself that much (mostly because the Joker killed Batman's parents, Alfred let Vicki Vale into the Batcave and Batman goes around happily killing people) but I did enjoy the comic adaptation.

Okay, I'd like to say that in the original comics, it wasn't established for a while that Batman didn't kill people, the original "rule" was he would never use a gun, and that wasn't even established for a few years. He didn't even kill that many people (Two or three, maybe), that was more of a problem in Batman Returns, albeit it still wasn't that bad. Also, the movie is an adaptation of the comics in general, and as such, it's allowed to make its own variations on the story, one of which was Joker (Jack Napier, if you want to be picky) killing his parents. It was done to give Bruce more reason to go after the Joker (Like there wasn't enough already), and it's perfectly fine. I don't know why so many people hate that.

I will admit though, Alfred letting Vale into the Batcave was pretty stupid.

[Duckman]

Absolutely no to Joker being played by Brad Pitt. First off, he's far less versatile than his choice of roles suggests (even then he's often the hunky love interest)

Are you serious?

I mean this with all due respect, and in the nicest way. But do you know who Brad Pitt is?
Anyone who says Brad Pitt is a typecast hunk doesn't know Brad Pitt. I think you need to watch the following movies:

Fight Club
True Romance
Snatch
Burn After Reading
Legends of the Fall
Seven
Oceans 11
12 Monkeys
Seven years in Tibet
Thelma & Louise

and the Joker is Heath's creation and should remain untouched.

I think you mean, Heath's version.... he didn't create the Joker, he simply portrayed him. He did a great role, but I am simply stating Brad Pitt would make perform a much better version, and more believable. Being Australian, its hard to critisize Heath, but to be honest, after watching 12 Monkeys, Fight Club, Snatch, Burn after Reading, and True Romance, Brad Pitt would win hands down in that department. He can adapt himself to any role he wants, and is an absolute perfectionist in his profession.

I think Brad gets roles that are similar and that call for him to play over the top types. He's not exactly leading man looks wise, so he gets character roles. I really like him. But then I like a lot of character actors more than the big stars. Anybody can be pretty, these folk have to really work. Brad's in a similar boat with the fellow who played Gollum. Brilliant performer. Wormtongue was a smaller role, but he nailed Grima.

The irony of your statement above is juxtaposed by the following:
Fight Club
Burn After Reading
Legends of the Fall
Seven
True Romance

All these movies were enormously popular cult movies because of his ability to relate to the viewer. He is so believable in these roles, that you forget you are watching Brad Pitt. That is the only mark of a great actor.
The only exception to his movies are the 'run of the mill' hollywood junk like Mr & Mrs Smith. But eventually like all Hollywood actors, they succumb to the dollars rather than the script.

Our own legend Russell Crowe was no exception from time to time. But I know that on the upside, more often than not, when I go to watch a Brad Pitt film, I'm usually taken far away from the Hollywood 'Brad' and subjected to the role he is playing, rather than the actor.... similiar to Robert Downey Jnr, who is probably on even par with Pitt.

[Logan]

I know this is a bit of a tangent... but thank you to someone for finally realizing that Brad Pitt actually CAN act. That was a great list of films that show a range and diversity that not many actors can successfully pull off, and I've only five more to add to that list:

The Curious Case of Benjamin Button
Sleepers
A River Runs Through It
Meet Joe Black
Interview With The Vampire

Now... does that mean I think he can do Batman? Not really... I just don't see it happening. Then again, I don't see Christian Bale as John Connor either, so what do I know?

[Duckman]

I know this is a bit of a tangent... but thank you to someone for finally realizing that Brad Pitt actually CAN act. ....

Now... does that mean I think he can do Batman? Not really... I just don't see it happening. Then again, I don't see Christian Bale as John Connor either, so what do I know?

No silly , I said Brad Pitt for the JOKER! I wouldn't want to see Pitt as Batman, thats just weird, but as the Joker, simply brilliant. Batman, the actual character, is really quite boring to be honest, and a cardboard actor soaked in alcohol could do a half decent Batman, because the role doesn't require a lot of versatility or adaptability.
The Joker however..... now that requires immense dedication. The character of the Joker, take for example, 'A Death in the Family' or 'The killing Joke' ... shows what a fantastic character he is, and how you simply cannot put down a comic book that is written with the glorious carnage exemplified in the Joker. But think about it ppls when do you see any of the Batman roles showing anything other than a monotonic performance..... why??? Because the Batman, is monotonic, he is meant to be devoid of emotion, and ironically, this puts us to sleep. Thats why a great villian, such as The Joker, is the perfect audience draw card. Or more aptly titled 'The Joker' Card.

Anyone seen the movies Titanic/Independance Day/((the 3 new star wars trilogys...yes I said it))/spiderman 2+3/X-Men/Aliens Vs Predator 1+2/ the list goes on.... what a disgrace these movies were.... bazillions on special effects which still looked fake/plot was boring, performances went nowhere and nothing made you think or look twice. Now take that and move onto .... just the Joker himself, not even in a Batman movie. Try having a conversation with The Joker. Its like watching a Mel Gibson performance, gloriously unpredictable, and that my dear FBTB batty fans, is the real reason that a character portrayal is succesful or not.... and co-incidentally, what Brad Pitt ooses.... unpredictability, with ironically... pure perfectionsim.