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No suggested alternate builds in persia sets...

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No suggested alternate builds in persia sets...

Postby legomatt » Thu Jul 01, 2010 10:01 pm

Is this now the norm for lego? Don't even City sets have suggestions and ideas in the booklet or on the boxes? If so, it's a shame.

I just picked up some lego sets, and noticed as i casually flicked to the back of the booklets and the box, that there were no suggested 'try this instead' alternate builds. One of the things i loved to see when i was a kid, were the different set-ups and builds that someone had done as suggestions inside the flap (remember flaps?) and at the back of the booklet.

edit: for brevity, and removed poorly phrased topic-derailing joviality. Also edited out brag (honestly didn't see it).
Last edited by legomatt on Sat Jul 03, 2010 12:39 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: No suggested alternate builds in persia sets...

Postby Robzula » Thu Jul 01, 2010 10:41 pm

They haven't done this outside of Creator in a looong time, buddy. I imagine it cost quite a bit to have their designers not only design the set but alt sets from that set, as well as photographing them and printing them in the instructions. There's also the fact that the alts were usually stupid, and if a kid did decide to try to build them, he'd find himself very frustrated that there was only one angle shown. Sure, it encouraged kids to build other things, but isn't that the whole point of LEGO sets for it a kid? Isn't that why you got your parents to buy you a LEGO set instead of an action figure vehicle? Why do they need to add other little things to "make sure" kids are building something else? Plus, doesn't it allow a little MORE creativity by not showing a kid something he could build, which he will try to, and therefore allow him to come up with his own ideas, rather than stifle creativity?
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Re: No suggested alternate builds in persia sets...

Postby ThatGuyWithTheBricks » Fri Jul 02, 2010 6:20 am

There are actually alts in the Lego Club magazine.
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Re: No suggested alternate builds in persia sets...

Postby Draykov » Fri Jul 02, 2010 7:25 am

legomatt wrote:Have lego started to silently disapprove of free thinking, by no longer encouraging imagination?

Tell me it ain't so!


As Robzula pointed out...things have been this way for a while. I think, however, that in the case of licensed lines in particular, alternate models are less important to the consumer in general. Sad as it is, most kids don't seem to want to buy an X-Wing so they can make something besides an X-Wing. LEGO is one of the least deserving targets to be accused of trying to incite some dystopian world of stifled creativity and vision.
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Re: No suggested alternate builds in persia sets...

Postby ThatGuyWithTheBricks » Fri Jul 02, 2010 8:51 am

Draykov wrote:
legomatt wrote:Have lego started to silently disapprove of free thinking, by no longer encouraging imagination?

Tell me it ain't so!


As Robzula pointed out...things have been this way for a while. I think, however, that in the case of licensed lines in particular, alternate models are less important to the consumer in general. Sad as it is, most kids don't seem to want to buy an X-Wing so they can make something besides an X-Wing. LEGO is one of the least deserving targets to be accused of trying to incite some dystopian world of stifled creativity and vision.


Last time I know there were putting alternatives in the instructions was 2006... Believe me, a kid isn't going to get an X-Wing just for an X-Wing, they'll take it apart and build something their own :lol: .

Anyways, this person is starting to annoy me with their very defined views...
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Re: No suggested alternate builds in persia sets...

Postby legomatt » Fri Jul 02, 2010 7:08 pm

legomatt wrote:Have lego started to silently disapprove of free thinking, by no longer encouraging imagination?

Tell me it ain't so!


Relax everyone, the above line was added very late, as a jokey afterthought when posing the initial question about suggested builds having long gone. It was only meant tongue in cheek, :facepalm: (i hoped the 'tell me it ain't so' part would indicate such (should've used a smiley). Note to self: jokey-speak does not translate well in forums. My mistake. :x

ThatGuyWithTheBricks wrote:This person is starting to annoy me with their very defined views


:shock: Really? In a forum? ...thanks for that, i needed a laugh. :)

But I must make it clear that what Draykov supposed (which IS what you responded to in your post, i.e. words/ideas mistakenly attributed to me by Draykov) was due to that mix up explained above. So to be clear, I am not accusing lego of anything of the sort described... it was a joke phrase, an over-exaggeration.

Everybody calm down... I'm as easy going and friendly a person you could meet, and to prove it, i won't pull your arms out of their sockets. :D

Thank You Robzula for answering the question, and you're right, that's what lego sets were like for me. But i've heard more and more stories lately from colleagues and friends that their children aren't making anything different - that they build what's on the box and leave it. So i wondered if the removal of suggestions was widespread (seems it is) and perhaps played some part in this, licenses could also have some impact. I think it's an interesting subject, the 'how' of how children play.
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Re: No suggested alternate builds in persia sets...

Postby ThatGuyWithTheBricks » Fri Jul 02, 2010 8:13 pm

You might just not want to be very radical (translation: too far to one side) with your posts. Oh, and please don't brag.
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Re: No suggested alternate builds in persia sets...

Postby SH1 » Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:40 pm

legomatt wrote:But i've heard more and more stories lately from colleagues and friends that their children aren't making anything different - that they build what's on the box and leave it. So i wondered if the removal of suggestions was widespread (seems it is) and perhaps played some part in this, licenses could also have some impact. I think it's an interesting subject, the 'how' of how children play.


As a counter to this, sets in my house rarely stay built as original for long. After about a week, they get torn down and mixed into the primordial mix of bricks and rebuilt into something else. For example, my six year old, last week, built a 'tree' out of technic pulley wheels, pins, axles, and connectors. It blew me away. His other approach is to try and build what he sees in the LS@H catalog, from parts in his mix. World Racers is the latest, while he works to earn enough money to get the actual sets. [or wait 'til Christmas]

MLCad and a digital camera help a lot with preventing him from getting too attached to his creations. Capturing images, and drafting 'MOC instructions' give him confidence to promptly tear things apart.

So rest assured that childhood creativity is alive and well in some places. No dust gathers on our sets. :)
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Re: No suggested alternate builds in persia sets...

Postby Robzula » Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:46 pm

legomatt wrote:Everybody calm down...

No one was really getting worked up over or even taking particular note of that exact sentence (except ThatGuy, but he seemed to have been annoyed by the whole post with the last "joke" just being the icing on the irritated cake)

legomatt wrote:Thank You Robzula for answering the question, and you're right, that's what lego sets were like for me. But i've heard more and more stories lately from colleagues and friends that their children aren't making anything different - that they build what's on the box and leave it. So i wondered if the removal of suggestions was widespread (seems it is) and perhaps played some part in this, licenses could also have some impact. I think it's an interesting subject, the 'how' of how children play.

Could also be that as LEGO sets are looking better and better, kids don't really feel the need to make their own thing that's gonna turn out like one of the 70s, 80s, or 90s sets. Also I agree the licensing is probably a big factor; why build some random ship when you can have Anakin's starfighter or Luke's X-Wing? Is it that awful of a thing? I don't think so, why force kids to build other things just because they can? Would putting suggested alts on the box help it? Not likely, especially if the reasoning to keep sets together are the ones mentioned above.
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Re: No suggested alternate builds in persia sets...

Postby legomatt » Sat Jul 03, 2010 12:36 am

ThatGuyWithTheBricks wrote:You might just not want to be very radical (translation: too far to one side) with your posts. Oh, and please don't brag.


Mods can feel free to close this topic now, as i got the answers I sought (i.e. they were all stopped circa 2006).
:)
@ThatGuy - If this is all because you felt i'd 'bragged', why didn't you just point it out so that i could correct it? It was a completely honest mistake (i never saw it) and i never imagined it would be taken that way, i mentioned the sets i'd bought in order to explain the booklets & boxes i had looked through.
:|
I apologise to anyone offended by this topic, especially to ThatGuy, who seems to have taken exception to everything i've written. Apparently, I'm a radical free-thinker and not welcome. Consider me properly chastised and less likely to participate in future discussions, until i have worked out what everyone else thinks in order to bleat crowd pleasing platitudes.
:(
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Re: No suggested alternate builds in persia sets...

Postby ThatGuyWithTheBricks » Sat Jul 03, 2010 7:26 am

legomatt wrote:
ThatGuyWithTheBricks wrote:You might just not want to be very radical (translation: too far to one side) with your posts. Oh, and please don't brag.


Mods can feel free to close this topic now, as i got the answers I sought (i.e. they were all stopped circa 2006).
:)
@ThatGuy - If this is all because you felt i'd 'bragged', why didn't you just point it out so that i could correct it? It was a completely honest mistake (i never saw it) and i never imagined it would be taken that way, i mentioned the sets i'd bought in order to explain the booklets & boxes i had looked through.
:|
I apologise to anyone offended by this topic, especially to ThatGuy, who seems to have taken exception to everything i've written. Apparently, I'm a radical free-thinker and not welcome. Consider me properly chastised and less likely to participate in future discussions, until i have worked out what everyone else thinks in order to bleat crowd pleasing platitudes.
:(


No no, I feel your pain. When I first joined, I said something stupid and people got angry at me and even mods contacted me. Consider me your "warning". :D
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Re: No suggested alternate builds in persia sets...

Postby Draykov » Sat Jul 03, 2010 7:51 am

legomatt wrote:Relax everyone, the above line was added very late, as a jokey afterthought when posing the initial question about suggested builds having long gone. It was only meant tongue in cheek...


I wouldn't take it personally. The problem is two-fold...with so many new members during the summer, it becomes difficult to "get to know" individual posters and their personalities. With that in mind, some stuff gets taken seriously when you don't intend it to. On top of that, unrealistic expectations and childish ranting do happen around here, more frequently than most of us would like. As such, people sometimes respond to "jokey" responses with what they feel are legitimate retorts to goofy comments.

ThatGuyWithTheBricks wrote:This person is starting to annoy me with their very defined views


Yeah, I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean. Well defined views are good to have, even if not everybody agrees with you. Everyone here is free to articulate their opinions, no matter how radical, so long as they don't violate the CoC.

legomatt wrote:But I must make it clear that what Draykov supposed (which IS what you responded to in your post, i.e. words/ideas mistakenly attributed to me by Draykov) was due to that mix up explained above. So to be clear, I am not accusing lego of anything of the sort described... it was a joke phrase, an over-exaggeration.


I'm...yeah...not sure what to make of that.

ThatGuyWithTheBricks wrote:Oh, and please don't brag.


What? The only comment I've seen in this thread that you could possibly be referring to is this one:

legomatt wrote:I just picked up some lego sets...


...and that's not bragging.


Anyway, now that I've had mod's privilege of the last word, I'm locking this puppy at the author's request. Can't blame him.
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