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PoP question

Talk about your favorite developments in licensed themes from popular lines like Indiana Jones, Batman, Spongebob, Harry Potter, etc.

PoP question

Postby zithy » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:23 am

Do you think the movie will hurt or affect demand/interest/value of the sets? My wife seems convinced that if the movie sucks that people won't want the sets. I disagree and think the sets are pretty cool and just happen to have Donnie Darko on the box art.

Am looking forward to the movie though. Your thoughts?
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Re: PoP question

Postby banthafodder » Tue Apr 13, 2010 7:57 am

Speed Racer. I definitely think the popularity of a movie could affect demand. However, looking at the trailers, I think this movie will do quite well.
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Re: PoP question

Postby zithy » Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:20 am

banthafodder wrote:Speed Racer. I definitely think the popularity of a movie could affect demand. However, looking at the trailers, I think this movie will do quite well.



Daingit! Totally forgot about Speed Racer. The trailer was a joke, and even though I did watch the cartoon as a kid at times, I never had any desire to see the movie.

I do feel there's a vast difference between the two movies, but you did make a valid point and I agree with you on both points.
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Re: PoP question

Postby Master Fetty » Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:57 am

On LEGO:
Will the movie affect the demand for sets? Of course - kids will only want to play with what is cool and popular. If no one sees movie, movie is not cool, kids won't buy.

Will the quality of the movie affect the demand for sets? Heck no. Kid's aren't objective. Up until 8/9, they'll like most films they see, so will likely like this no matter what.

On the Film:
Will the film be any good? Its based off a video game. It has little to no originality appearing in trailers or promo stuff. It'll suck. Badly.

Will people see the film? I doubt it. Released just after Robin Hood and less than a couple of weeks after Iron Man 2, its unlikely to bring in wither the adult or kid blockbuster crowd in the masses. I've thought this since I first heard of the project; this will be the Box Office bomb of the summer.
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Re: PoP question

Postby Tyrant » Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:37 pm

Master Fetty wrote:On the Film:
Will the film be any good? Its based off a video game. It has little to no originality appearing in trailers or promo stuff. It'll suck. Badly.

I disagree with this. I believe it could suck (anything could), but I see nothing in the previews leading me to believe that it will. I don't think it will be a masterpiece of cinema or anything, but it looks entertaining. Also, not all movies based off of video games suck. I admit a number of them do, but there are those that don't. As far as I know, Disney hasn't made any of them either. I'm not saying they can do no wrong, but they have a decent enough track record.
Master Fetty wrote:Will people see the film? I doubt it. Released just after Robin Hood and less than a couple of weeks after Iron Man 2, its unlikely to bring in wither the adult or kid blockbuster crowd in the masses. I've thought this since I first heard of the project; this will be the Box Office bomb of the summer.

It comes out the 28th, while Robin Hood comes out the 14th. Iron Man will have been out since the 7th. The weekend of the 21st is a wasteland. Shrek 4, which is questionable given the reception of the 3rd movie. The other movie that weekend is MacGruber, which will do nothing. Anyone who wants to watch Robin Hood or Iron Man will have time to do so (multiple times if they like) before the 28th. Prince of Persia somewhat taps the same audience as Robin Hood (medieval fighting) and Iron Man (fantastical) and it's competition that weekend is party and the City 2 which is a counter release (not even remotely related genres). The kids will want to see Prince of Persia, fans of the video game will want to see it, some adults will want to see it and others will go see it because they've already watched the other movies out. I think you are grossly underestimating this movie's appeal. The only potential stumbling block comes out 2 weeks later (the A Team). Iron Man 2 and PoP will make lots of money. Robin Hood (which I think will be the best movie of the three) will be a coin toss (I don't expect it to bomb, but I have my doubts it will explode).

As for the sets, yes the reception of the movie will effect the sales. AFOLs, I would imagine, are already buying them for a variety of reasons (new figures, new color, new parts, parts in new colors, new accessories, new weapons, new animals, etc). Kids are probably a toss up based on their reception of the movie.
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Re: PoP question

Postby Clyne » Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:35 pm

Tyrant wrote:The weekend of the 21st is a wasteland. Shrek 4, which is questionable given the reception of the 3rd movie. The other movie that weekend is MacGruber, which will do nothing.


Wow...that's not my take at all. I guess maybe I see 3-D as the great equalizer here, cause I'm pretty sure those kids are gonna wanna see the big green guy while wearing the funny glasses.

MacGruber is totally going to suck, but I don't think that prediction is shocking to anyone.

I do think people may be vastly overrating Robin Hood. As cheesy as it was, a lot of people still have a pretty fond remembrance of Prince of Thieves; and Ridley Scott + dark period action film isn't a guarantee success with the public; while I thought it was a pretty good movie, Kingdom of Heaven absolutely bombed at the box office. Gladiator was the exception, not the rule.

I think PoP does pretty much exactly what it's "predecessors" did (i.e. The Mummy); it'll get terrible reviews, but do above average at the box office. The sets seem like a really good value, I don't forsee there being any problem with them moving.
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Re: PoP question

Postby Master Fetty » Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:38 pm

What we have to remember is that regular people don't go to the cinema that often. If they go once a month, then they have one film from those released in May to pick. And I think there are safer bets for all audiences than PoP.
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Re: PoP question

Postby Robzula » Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:50 pm

Speed Racer isn't a good comparison to Prince of Persia because the sets sucked. The movie was phenomenal. I went with a friend who had absolutely no desire to see it, but it was free so he came with. We both were half out of our seats clutching at the ones in front for most of the movie because it was so gorram intense. I've had a couple of other friends who I convinced to watch it who felt the same way, though they had to watch it on a tv screen rather than at the theatre.
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Re: PoP question

Postby Draykov » Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:03 pm

banthafodder wrote:Speed Racer. I definitely think the popularity of a movie could affect demand. However, looking at the trailers, I think this movie will do quite well.


Excellent example...and one that I'd already forgotten about.

8158 - MSRP: $19.99; Avg. Bricklink price: $26.90
8159 - MSRP: $19.99; Avg. Bricklink price: $25.55
8160 - MSRP: $39.99; Avg. Bricklink price: $32.03
8161 - MSRP: $59.99; Avg. Bricklink price: $46.66

Robzula wrote:Speed Racer isn't a good comparison to Prince of Persia because the sets sucked. The movie was phenomenal.


Debatable on both counts. Prince of Persia has some unique new elements (read: animals) and colors. So did Speed Racer, though not as many. On a design scale, though, I think both themes are in the same neighborhood.
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Re: PoP question

Postby banthafodder » Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:06 pm

You may have liked the movie but it was a commercial disaster and I think that played into the popularity of the sets. I thought the design of the sets were pretty good but without the movies success they were doomed to failure.
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Re: PoP question

Postby Tyrant » Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:11 pm

Master Fetty wrote:What we have to remember is that regular people don't go to the cinema that often. If they go once a month, then they have one film from those released in May to pick. And I think there are safer bets for all audiences than PoP.

The problem is that you aren't also including the fact that "regular people" (whoever they are) don't make up the bulk of ticket sales so they more or less don't matter for the box office of most movies (obviously there are exceptions). "Regular people" aren't going to flock to Iron Man, Robin Hood, PoP, Shrek, or anything else. "Regular people" don't flock to the theater for very many things. Some of them will go to various movies at various times. Kids, Teens, and Young Adults flock to the theater and barring horrible word of mouth (which I view as unlikely, though possible) PoP is exactly the kind of movie they flock to. The Scary Movie/Date Movie/Epic Movie/Disaster Movie/Meet the Spartans type of movies are making money (unfortunately) and someone is going to watch them. It isn't "regular people" (unless I give my countrymen entirely too much credit) going to see those movies. It's the people that go watch nearly anything. They will go watch PoP. Disney fans will go watch PoP. People who liked PotC will go watch it on the chance Disney is still able to make decent live action movies in a fantastic setting. It will be a suprise if this movie bombs. I believe Iron Man will do better because the first was entertaining and successful so there is a built in audience that has possibly been able to grow thanks to DVD and it's ads all look solid. I believe Robin Hood is the questionable one for the reasons Clyne stated.
Clyne wrote:
Tyrant wrote:The weekend of the 21st is a wasteland. Shrek 4, which is questionable given the reception of the 3rd movie. The other movie that weekend is MacGruber, which will do nothing.


Wow...that's not my take at all. I guess maybe I see 3-D as the great equalizer here, cause I'm pretty sure those kids are gonna wanna see the big green guy while wearing the funny glasses.

Maybe I was a little harsh. Shrek won't bomb (it may even do better than I think it will). However, the third had a fairly lukewarm reception. 3D will help drive sales (especially with the disproportionate ticket prices, kind of like why Superman Returns almost looks like it made money if you don't understand the business thanks to lots of IMax ticket sales). I guess I should have said that I don't think there is a lot of crossover with audiences. Yes, kids will want to see all 4 of these movies (well, maybe not Robin Hood) so there is that. What about teens and young adults though? I think a lot of them will take that weekend and either watch Iron Man 2 (possibly again) or Robin Hood (possibly again) so by the time PoP comes out most of the people who want to see IM2 or RH will have had the chance to watch them (leaving them looking for a new movie, like PoP, to watch). I hate to say it, but I think a number of the "built in" audience who watches virtually anything will watch MacGruber instead. It's all guess work, but I would like to think I have based this on past trends and not simply my like or dislike of a particular movie's previews.
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Re: PoP question

Postby Robzula » Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:44 pm

banthafodder wrote:You may have liked the movie but it was a commercial disaster and I think that played into the popularity of the sets. I thought the design of the sets were pretty good but without the movies success they were doomed to failure.

Yeah, after posting I kinda realized that. I was just eager to get my viewpoint out on that movie because so many people I know said it looked awful, but loved it after they saw it. (I was excited for it from the trailers, although before they said it was Speed Racer I thought they were making an F-Zero movie. If only)
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Re: PoP question

Postby theJudeAbides » Mon Apr 19, 2010 2:36 pm

Robzula, I really like Speed Racer as well, and never understood why it was criticised so harshly. However, this topic is in the LEGO section, so from here on in I'm going to stick to that.

I think when we look at both the Speed Racer and the Prince of Persia lines, we need to look beyond the movies, the licenses, and the hype to the sets themselves. When you look at the Speed Racer line and how it did, you notice that the two smaller $20 sets did much better than the two more expensive ones. This exactly echos my purchasing, as I purchased the two smaller sets myself. When you look at these sets, each contained two really cool looking cars as well as some excellent looking figs. Both sets had around 200 parts giving them a nice parts/price ratio. Overall, they were very nice sets with good parts and good playability. Even if you cared nothing for the movie, the show, or the license, you could still appreciate the value these sets contained.

However, if you look at the larger sets which didn't sell as well, it's easy to tell why. The one set came with the exact same car contained in one of the smaller sets as well as a semi-truck. I'm sure most people realized that they would rather pay for the smaller set and get the same car as well as another of similar size that they could "race" together" rather than some random semi-truck with some strange stuff in the back that didn't make sense. I can't tell you how many times I saw this set sitting alone on shelves while all the others around it were sold out.

The other set was fairly nice (and I did consider buying it), but on thing really prevented me from doing so: the random "pit stop" and "finish line" elements that were included. They really didn't add much to the set other than increasing it's price. Also, the cars were nice, but didn't really mesh with the other racers, so there wasn't much of an incentive to "complete the collection." Overall, this set was better than the semi-truck one, but still had it's problems.

Now, as for the PoP, I predict these sets will sink or swim based on the merits of the individual sets as well as opposed to the success or lack thereof of the movie. Here's some thoughts on each set after a cursory glance at their LEGO pages:

7569 Desert Attack ($10.99)
So basically, this is a battlepack-priced set with quite a few figs including the PoP himself as well as two bad guys and a skeleton. However, what immediately stood out to me was the black horse. Has LEGO made a horse in black before? If they have, it's been a while. Also, I'm pretty sure we have seen that bush piece in dark tan before. Overall, this set intrigues me with all it's minifig goodness as well as that black horse and bush. Will other LEGO enthusiests see it the same way? Time will tell.

7570 Ostrich Race ($19.99)
OK, so it's pretty obvious that this set is basically the Hoth Base of 2010. The main selling point of this set is the new ostrich molds, which look pretty nice. The question I have to ask is, was there really as big of demand for ridable ostriches as there was for a ridable Taun-Taun? As cool as those ostriches are, I just don't see myself really needing to get them. However, I'm sure there are people are there who will. I think in the future, there may be a market for this set for those few completists/parts monkeys who missed out on their one chance to get their hands on some hot ostrich action, but other than that, I have to wonder.

7571 The Fight for the Dagger ($29.99)
My first thought when looking at this set was "$30 for a camel?" I should admit, though, that I've never been a fan of these small-scene sets like this. However, upon further inspection, I will admit that the minifgs and accessories are nice and there are some nice tan, brown, and gold pieces here. Also, I really DO want to get one of those camels, and this is the cheapest set in which it appears. I think this set's reception will be pretty mediocre, but could possible surprise me and become a hit due to the camel.

7572 Quest Against Time ($49.99)
I'm gonna be honest with you: I really see this guy stinking up the shelves with it's boring-bley self. I was initially excited when I saw that trans-yellow stuff and thought it was those old-school quarter-windscreen things that haven't been seen in ages. However, when I zoomed in to find that it was actually just a bunch of 1x2 bricks, all that excitment left me in a hurry. To me, this just seems like a really boring scene with figs that can be purchased in cheaper sets. Also, does anybody really need more of those sawblades? And by "more," I really mean "any at all." I can see getting this as a parts pack when it inevitably hits the 50% off bin, but until then, I'll pass.

7573 Battle of Alamut ($79.99)
Wow, what an improvement over that last set. I'm loving the wide variety of colors, minifigs, and playability. I can definately see this having some cross-appeal with Castle fans (especially the fact that they'll be able to get many of those castle parts in non-grey colors). With a great parts/price ratio, lots of minifigs, that new camel piece and plenty of other stuff, I can definately see this set doing well.


Anyways, that's just my take on these sets. I predict that most the sets will do fairly well, although probably not as well as the Indiana Jones sets that they're replacing. I'm sure they'll find their market regardless of how the movie does, and don't think that the fate of the sets is necessarily tied to that of the movie, despite what happened with Speed Racer.

And upon review I realize that this is a pretty epic wall of text: enjoy! :D
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Re: PoP question

Postby Tyrant » Mon Apr 19, 2010 4:09 pm

That is an interesting set by set analysis Jude. I think, as with most sets, time will tell on them. But I think your ideas are on track. I do have a couple of comments.

Desert Attack-Yes they have made LEGO horses in black. I believe you are right that it has been a while. I think the selling point with the horse will be the blanket print that it has. That is unique to that horse and having it in a cheap set like that (in my opinion) will help drive sales of that set. I've got quite a few myself already. I think the saddle in that color is also unique to that set (I'm not positive on that one though). The two Hassassins (sp?) could also easily be used as Castle figures for diversity. I think, this set will do fairly well.

Ostritch Race-I agree that this set lives or dies based on how bad people want the ostritch pieces. I picked up two at buy 1 get 1 half off. If I get more, I will try to get them on sale because that is the main reason I am getting them.

The Fight for the Dagger-I originally thought $30 was a little much based on the piece count, but it does have 4 figures and the camel. As you said, it's the cheapest set with the camel so I think that will help move them. The camel itself is also a different color than the other one (I believe). The parts look good too. It's also a way to get the new turban in white along with the new arabian helmet in gold. It also has the euro armor in gold (without any symbols) and the new dagger piece. I am hoping to get at least two of these on sale somewhere for the parts and camels.

Quest Against Time-I ended up getting two of these at the buy 1 get 1 half off sale. I did buy them mainly for the parts (lots of dark bley slopes and the lion headed pieces in the new color). I also got them for the Nizam figures because I really like his figure. I agree that this set could easily be the one to clog the shelves. I think the only hope for this one is if enough kids think it looks like it could be fun. I didn't put either of mine together so I have no idea how fun it may or may not be.

Battle of Alamut-This one looks pretty solid to me. I think cross appeal with Castle is very likely. It could easily be the basis for a more eastern appearing fortress to use in a Crusades styled MOC. The guard figures are also easily assimilated into Castle. Then you have the Camel. I think it also helps to have a large fortress type set that isn't $100. I really like it and I plan on picking one up as soon as my TRU reward bucks show up.

Overall I think there is a big chance for crossover sales with Castle fans.
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Re: PoP question

Postby Daz Hoo » Tue Apr 20, 2010 1:48 pm

Like many of you implied, even if the movie doesn't do well, I think the PoP sets will do better than the Speed Racers sets mainly because they are plain and simple better made sets IMHO.

Unlike the Speed Racers sets, which didn't have lots of great pieces that would have appeal to trains or Town fans, the PoP sets do featured lots of peices, both old and new, that might be appealing to Castle fans, but also to fans of other lines, like Adventurer (including Indiana Jones fans) or even Town fans (lots of really interesting elements for buildings).
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Re: PoP question

Postby dWhisper » Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:53 pm

Prince of Persia certainly speaks to me as a castle fan, that's one of the main attractions of these. While the interesting looks very interesting on its own, I would have bought these sets without the movie. I can't say as I ever even picked up a Speed Racer box. And I did buy Indiana Jones sets based on Crystal Skull even though the movie stunk out loud.

So, in short, yes, the movie may have some effect, but good sets can sell themselves. Not even great movies, like, say, Return of the Jedi, or successful movies, like Phantom Menace, could make people want Jabba's Palace or the Podracer sets...
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Re: PoP question

Postby WillyWampa » Tue Apr 20, 2010 6:31 pm

While the quality and success of the movie will have some bearing on the popilarity of the PoP sets it is difficult to compare their success to the Speed Racer sets since Speed Racer was only based on a single move and nostalgic TV show (Anyone recall when it was on). The Prince of Persia line has not only the soon to be released movie, but it is also based on an extremely popular video game that was out not long ago and thus has an already well developed fan base. It is likely that these sets would do quite well even if they were not being tied into a movie release.
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Re: PoP question

Postby UOldPirate » Wed Apr 21, 2010 10:29 am

I agree with everyone else who thinks the sets will sell based on their own value. The sets are unique enough in the Lego lineup that they will probably still sell OK even if the movie tanks. All 5 sets are currently in the shop@home top 20 and the movie isn't even out yet. I've never played the video game and have no intention of seeing the movie, but as a Lego fan I'll probably still end up picking up some of the cheapies just for the figs and some parts.

Besides, I think the biggest thing the sets will have working against them won't be poor box office results, it's that ridiculously large picture of Jake Gyllenhaal on the box. :) Really Lego? That was the best design you could come up with? Really?
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Re: PoP question

Postby legomatt » Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:32 pm

Master Fetty wrote:On the Film:
Will the film be any good? Its based off a video game


They'd like us to believe that. Sadly it has only used the game's name, and this POP film actually bears little or no resemblance to the PoP Sands of Time video game, from what i've seen so far - which for me is very disappointing, as i felt the game (having played it several times) would have made an excellent film.

Video games have moved on a lot, and some tell a very good tale. POP SoT is one of those games.
The Sands of Time video game was the first title i had for my PS2 (back when that was new), and I found it an absolute delight. Not wishing to spoil the game for those who haven't played it yet, i'll just say that for a platform action game, the story was a very good adventure story which was wove into the game very nicely, with a clever foreshadowing sequence and 'telling of the tale' format which resolves really nicely.

In short, the video game was actually a really good arabian nights style tale told/played via the medium of an excellent game (the 'join' was imperceptible). However, from what i've seen of the film so far, it seems to have just taken the name (for the brand following) but ditched everything original and exciting from the story. In fact, the director has gone on record as saying he never played the game and has no interest in it, but instead just watched Indiana Jones and Gladiator for some 'shooting tips'. :roll:

I shuddered upon reading that fact, and expect this film to be mere sands and sorcery drivel. (And i usually love sands and sorcery). So...

Master Fetty wrote:It has little to no originality appearing in trailers or promo stuff. It'll suck. Badly.


That statement i fear i sadly may agree with.

How will the film affect Lego? I don't know, personally i wished they supported Indiana Jones better before jumping onto another film, it's like Lego Group is itself a big kid being wowed by the next noise... ooh, mom, look, a new film, i want i want. Wait, ooh look a new film, forget that other one, i want this one... no wait. (Does Lego know new films are made every year?) i dread to think what road we are headed down. Maybe they think every license is going to be a Star Wars.
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Re: PoP question

Postby banthafodder » Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:43 pm

legomatt wrote: Lego Group is itself a big kid being wowed by the next noise


Unfortunately that's partially true. They have to get the license before someone else does because who knows what the next Star Wars could be. To justify the expense hey have to come out with the new sets. As far as these PoP sets I agree with the others that there is a huge amount of cross over into other themes like castle and even Star Wars.
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