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Toy Fair This Sunday!

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Re: Toy Fair This Sunday!

Postby Flynn » Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:15 pm

Seriously, is that Falcon unfinished or something? Because that looks to be in seriously poor condition. The interior is almost bare, the bottom is...ugh, and overall it just looks so bad. Granted, it is nice to finally have a belly gunner, smuggling hatches, and what looks to be retractable landing gear, but this is so far really poor quality, especially for 100 dollars.
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Re: Toy Fair This Sunday!

Postby jomandybri » Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:24 pm

Sorry, they said it's not retractable :|
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Re: Toy Fair This Sunday!

Postby Chief » Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:40 am

Flynn wrote: this is so far really poor quality, especially for 100 dollars.


$139.99. :\
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Re: Toy Fair This Sunday!

Postby bigospedros » Tue Feb 15, 2011 2:01 am

Morgan19 wrote:
bigospedros wrote:PLEASE let's not turn this thread into YET ANOTHER pricing debate!

The prices are the prices, deal with it or wait for a sale.


Why? Price is just as valid a topic of conversation as the pros/cons of design, figures, new pieces, or anything else related to the sets and shouldn't just be "dealt with". People have a perfectly valid point that the value's going down while prices are going up, and it can and should be talked about. If nothing else, it highlights that it should be a point for the ambassadors to pass on to LEGO.

I'm with Draykov on this one-- I'm done with the Star Wars line. It's just not worth it any more.

m19


Because a pricing debate will undoubtedly turn into a mass offering of various theories as to why the prices have gone up followed by other people saying about the magical $0.1 per piece ratio (that hasn't really existed for years). Not to mention someone from other countries will chime in with "you want to try and live outside of the US, it's much more expensive here". It really is pointless in my opinion.

They won't change their pricing just because a few people on a forum complain. For every forumite/AFOL that stops buying a line due to price, there'll be 10s of kids to replace them. If virtually everyone stops buying a line, then TLG will revisit their policies ... or they'll just stop making that line.
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Re: Toy Fair This Sunday!

Postby Andi » Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:15 am

Thanks Ace and Ry for that awesome coverage!

Looking at the photos from the Falcon - especially from the interior - I am glad that I have my 4504...
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Re: Toy Fair This Sunday!

Postby bigospedros » Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:18 am

Andi wrote:Looking at the photos from the Falcon - especially from the interior - I am glad that I have my 4504...


indeed ... this new one does seem to be improved on how sturdy the roof flaps are (my 4504 ones are a bit flimsy at times) and the figs are good, but that's about it. There's less details on the side ports, interior is no better, no mechanism for the ramp etc etc

Perhaps another set where I'll just want the figs but that's it ?
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Re: Toy Fair This Sunday!

Postby Morgan19 » Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:01 am

bigospedros wrote:They won't change their pricing just because a few people on a forum complain. For every forumite/AFOL that stops buying a line due to price, there'll be 10s of kids to replace them. If virtually everyone stops buying a line, then TLG will revisit their policies ... or they'll just stop making that line.

Re-read what I wrote...

Morgan19 wrote:If nothing else, it highlights that it should be a point for the ambassadors to pass on to LEGO.

Last time I checked, the ambassadors aren't "forumites". Make enough noise, the ambassadors will hear, and can let LEGO know via a direct line of communication. That's one of the points of the Ambassador program, no? Voting with your wallet, so to speak, is fine. But it's not the only way to get a point across-- working through the ambassadors by being vocal is perfectly valid as well.

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Re: Toy Fair This Sunday!

Postby MrCRskater » Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:03 am

Flynn wrote:Seriously, is that Falcon unfinished or something? Because that looks to be in seriously poor condition. The interior is almost bare, the bottom is...ugh, and overall it just looks so bad.

Yeah, I was really looking forward to the new Falcon as I don't have 4504 or 7190, but this new one is disappointing. As Flynn said, the interior is rather bare, and there wasn't any thought put into the underside except structural considerations (something that also afflicted the new Sith Infiltrator, too). Unfortunately, it's in such a state that you couldn't even just patch it up with some plates to make it look good! At this point, it would only be worth buying as a base for MOCing a decent version, but I'm not sure I'm up to spending $140 on a base model that I'd be pouring more money into, anyway :|

The new podracers, on the other hand, are GORGEOUS! I was already looking forward to those, but now the anticipation is almost more than I can bear. The trans technic pieces are sweet, and the pistol grip seems to make them very swooshable. Best of all, the models them selves are darn-near perfect. Great parts usage, color usage, and construction. And whatdyaknow, a fair price for the lot, go figure! 2 words: Sah-wheet!

Thanks for the great coverage, guys (yet again)! You continue to set a high bar for this sort of thing, and it is much-appreciated around here!
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Re: Toy Fair This Sunday!

Postby Chief » Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:20 am

Star Wars-wise, the podracer set was the winner by a wide margin for both Ace and I. A truly stunning set, and perhaps aided by the huge span of time between the original and the redesign.
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Re: Toy Fair This Sunday!

Postby bigospedros » Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:41 am

Morgan19 wrote:Last time I checked, the ambassadors aren't "forumites". Make enough noise, the ambassadors will hear, and can let LEGO know via a direct line of communication. That's one of the points of the Ambassador program, no? Voting with your wallet, so to speak, is fine. But it's not the only way to get a point across-- working through the ambassadors by being vocal is perfectly valid as well.

m19


I admire your optimism, I really do, but until Lego sees a significant drop in revenue specifically due to decreased sales as a direct result of their pricing policies, nothing will change, whether the Amdassadors are feeding that information back or not.
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Re: Toy Fair This Sunday!

Postby bigospedros » Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:45 am

Chief wrote:star Wars-wise, the podracer set was the winner by a wide margin for both Ace and I. A truly stunning set, and perhaps aided by the huge span of time between the original and the redesign.


this is a very good point ... maybe all re-designs should be limited to not being done too soon after the original ?

I too think the Podracers are a vast improvement on the previous versions.
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Re: Toy Fair This Sunday!

Postby cas » Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:09 am

The Podracers is the only set I have nothing to complain about, either price-wise or design-wise. I agree, the span of time between the remakes and the originals is an important factor, along with the differentiation in design from the originals. I busted out my old podracers and compared them to the images of the new ones and the improvement is significant and I thought the originals were pretty fantastic, too.

I'm curious about the Falcon though, in terms of differentiation. Many commenters say it isn't enough of an improvement over the last system version, which, perhaps it isn't, but if had been packaged differently, say Return of the Jedi style, (maybe with Lando and the Sullustian, in addition to the main cast), would people be complaining as much? Or is it just too expensive no matter what "style" it may be in?
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Re: Toy Fair This Sunday!

Postby eriochrome » Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:07 pm

For the falcon, I think people who already have the last system version should be happy that it does not have any really good new figures. They then have no reason to buy it since people say the improvements are modest or nonexistant. They have already made the RotJ Lando recently so all the is missing is Nien Nunb if you want that ship. They put in the flick missiles to represent the concussion missile used on the Second Death Star Reactor.

While more detail on the bottom would be good I have found with Tantive IV you need some place to hold it underneath to play with it. To much detail and you are dropping pieces as you fly. I know it is supposed to be almost falling apart but actually falling apart would not be much fun.
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Re: Toy Fair This Sunday!

Postby dWhisper » Tue Feb 15, 2011 2:28 pm

<rant>

Okay, maybe it's me, but I'm starting to really think that LEGO has turned upside down in what they're doing. Between the prices and the design, it's pretty clear that the marketing team and financial guys are making decisions without thinking about their customers. We've seen a pretty steady increase in prices over the last couple of years, and at the same time, the quality of what we're getting has really started to swing off.

Maybe Lucas has gotten more input into what's created, since he's willing to slap a Star Wars logo on anything he can. Maybe they were tired of being the premiere product and wanted to start making MegaBloks look good by comparison, I don't know. But with the exception of the Pod Racer, that entire lineup is either a) Garbage or b) Overpriced. Often, both.

The trend has been to create great minifigs and put them in very sub-par sets. Perhaps there's a big aftermarket that is being tapped here, or they're trying to drive up magnet sales... no, wait, those sales are going to drop like a rock too now that they're glued down (or they were last time I heard). It's becoming harder and harder to justify spending money on the garbage that they're churning out. What good are some great minifigs if the sets they're in are embarrassing to put on a shelf, and not worth the money to part out in the first place.

Seriously, go compare what you see in that slideshow to some of the HALO sets that MegaBloks puts out. Sure, they're MB, but at least you're only paying $25 for nice looking figures and a junky looking set. LEGO expects you to pony up $120 for the same right.

</rant>

Okay, enough of that. Podracers look cool. Guess I'm spending the rest of my disposable income in the next year on Bricklink instead of LEGO.com.

Again.
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Re: Toy Fair This Sunday!

Postby Flynn » Tue Feb 15, 2011 2:33 pm

Chief wrote:$139.99. :\


Right, wonder why I wrote 100 to begin with...But yeah, it's definitely not worth $140...

dwhisper wrote:The trend has been to create great minifigs and put them in very sub-par sets. Perhaps there's a big aftermarket that is being tapped here...It's becoming harder and harder to justify spending money on the garbage that they're churning out. What good are some great minifigs if the sets they're in are embarrassing to put on a shelf, and not worth the money to part out in the first place.


Agreed 100%. I've always felt LEGO the last couple year has been putting way too much detail on the figures and not enough on the sets. What I've always found interesting is how it seems that minifigure detailing is increasing across the board on all the various themes, but SW is the only line I've been noticing to be going so steadily downhill recently. I mean, the new Harry Potter sets have some danged nice figs, but the sets are still very well-made, well-detailed, and filled with some pretty good play features as well. Star Wars, on the other hand...Well, I think the new Falcon makes my point for me. Yech.
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Re: Toy Fair This Sunday!

Postby dWhisper » Tue Feb 15, 2011 2:47 pm

The Toy Story line reminded me of the excitement I used to get from Star Wars, back when it first came out in 99 or the golden year of 2006. It seems like the podracers are the rarity now... Once upon a time, a remake usually showed off how much more they could do with more creative building and some part variety. Think to the first Slave I compared to the Jango version or the 06 remake. Or the second falcon (or the more amazing UCS) against the first and it's giant BURP saucers. Or the A-Wing, Y-Wing, B-Wing trifecta of awesome.

Now, we see downgrades. The latest Slave I looks worse than its predecessors. The new Ewoks look nice, but it's what, quadruple the price of the old set and features less parts and pieces? We've waited 12 years for a new Padme figure to get the exact same thing with a fleshy face. Minifigs improve, when they aren't slathered with Clone Wars halloween masks, and the printing has gone up, but otherwise, it seems like even rehashes can't do well.
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Re: Toy Fair This Sunday!

Postby mr_joshua » Tue Feb 15, 2011 4:16 pm

Thanks to Ace and Ryan for their 'rough' time spent.

dWhisper nailed it for me. All I can say about the majority of them is 'cool figs'. I have all the originals, and the podracer set is a nice improvement, but... I am glad my son and I have come to like the Kingdoms line. Those sets are flippin awesome. Its like the Q.A. deptartment for the SW line is non-existant. Who designs a lego ship that resembles a flying craft...yet the top flaps open when you go to 'swoosh' it (Infiltrator). The MF is a travesty. I am solrely saddened that it has come to this. The 'ewok attack' set is almost as bad looking as that sith speeder thingy. The only thing going for the ewok set is the figs. Is that how it should be? I can see my kids playing with that speeder about as much as the freeco speeder....none. I will get the republic cruiser mostly beacuse I love bigger ship like that (I will just have to convince the wife that its waaay different than the dk. red version).
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Re: Toy Fair This Sunday!

Postby MrCRskater » Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:32 pm

dWhisper wrote:The Toy Story line reminded me of the excitement I used to get from Star Wars, back when it first came out in 99 or the golden year of 2006.


Me too! The Toy Story sets looked great in preliminary images, and did not disappoint. I picked up nearly the entire line and truly loved each and every set. I'm expecting PotC to deliver similar results (Cars should be good, too).

dWhisper wrote:. . . with the exception of the Pod Racer, that entire lineup is either a) Garbage or b) Overpriced. Often, both. The trend has been to create great minifigs and put them in very sub-par sets.


This is my feeling, too. It seems that they've been using minifigs as the selling point for a good 18 months now. There are several sets that really aren't worth a look, 'cept for the figs. For example, the latest Slave I, Greivous' Starfighter, Cad Bane's Speeder, the 8129 AT-AT. Other sets that were maybe marginal were made more desirable by including rare or exclusive figs, like Dooku's Solar Sailer, the 8018 AAT, and the Separatist Shuttle. The 2011 product line is a new low.
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Re: Toy Fair This Sunday!

Postby Flynn » Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:43 pm

Heck, the AT-AT didn't have many figures to boast either- you could just pick up an Echo Base and a battle pack and be set (Unless you were really, really dying for a 3PO or something).
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Re: Toy Fair This Sunday!

Postby Draykov » Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:24 am

cas wrote:... if [it] had been packaged differently, say Return of the Jedi style, (maybe with Lando and the Sullustian, in addition to the main cast), would people be complaining as much? Or is it just too expensive no matter what "style" it may be in?


I don't care so much about packaging, but the different figs would've been cool. Bottom line, I'll pay for quality. Let's say I'm an idealist and I think my vote counts in LEGO corporate headquarters: I don't want the message I send to be that their price is too high only to have them take down the QC (and I'm not referring to design, but actual product - a trend we've seen with minifigure packs and collectibles that I don't want to see extend to regular sets). That's a fear I have. This price, however, seems like a blatant rip-off.

Seven years ago, I could have had a system scale Falcon (4504) with 5 minifigs for about $100. Now I can have one with 6 figures for $140. The new one apparently has over 250 pieces more than 4504, but where and what are they? At a glance, they look to be very similar sets. It doesn't look we're getting 40% more Falcon or even 20% more (leaving room for added costs that might not have been there in 2004).

It might not be my place to say so, but maybe LEGO needs some new blood on the SW design team. Or maybe as dW pointed out, Lucasfilm has intensified their gaze on SW LEGO and has decided to fiddle. There are still other themes that put out great stuff.
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