darth jason wrote:Teekey,
It does not suprise me one bit that you are in middle school I had already deduced that you were fairly young. I must say you have made some very compeling arguments and brought some light on a very touchy(for some) and so it seems complicated scenario.
Hey, are you one of those "Guess Your Age" peoples at the fair?
I guess you could tell from my posting style, though.
darth jason wrote:I see we missconected with your oil analogy. I had taken the position of the crude to refined product cost variant totally negating the mention of ebay as you have stated because well that would be pointless but it dosent happen. In otherword raw material cost to finish product to the consumer. I dont think oil is a good analogy for this problem they are two extremely different animals.
Tyrant wrote:Well, that's a matter of practicality. Gasoline, by the nature of it's intended use, is highly volatile. It's not something most shipping companies would like you sending through their system. If it were stable, you can bet there would be a market for it. The best comparison I can think of is Gold. Gold can be (and is) sold on Ebay. Gold can be turned into jewelry or wiring or whatever, but it is also bought for potential future value. Buying Gold a few years ago would have been for the long term. Right now it's bouncing around enough in a short period that you can do it short term. I won't compare them to diamonds (even though they have similar market properties as gold) because their price is artificially inflated and eventually their value will drop sharply once enough people wake up to that fact.
Well, I agree that oil is a bad analogy. However, I also think that gold is not analogious to LEGO either. For example, when a LEGO set goes out of production, that particular one is never released again. Sure, it may be updated, but as a collector, I would want the old version as well as the new version. Gold, oil, and stocks all go up and down, and are always on the market, and also they are not collectable. (Just random thing. To your remark on gold being sold on eBay, Tyrant, I had to see if just blocks of gold are on there. So I went on eBay, and searched for it. Unfortunately, my wording was bad, and I searched for gold bricks. The first thing I came up with were the LEGO gold bricks.
darth jason wrote:As for how someone reselling legos at an inflated rate in an current/open market really hampers anyones lego set availability, im not convinced in the least. If someone buys 5 fighter tanks at the retail price(usually above msrp) then attempts to resell them onlive at well over their intended price, plus shipping(which is usually inflated too) and possibly tax when there are other sellers that have competative prices, and lately from what Ive seen have free shipping, what kind of person does that? As well if we are only talking retail stores, well i guess that would be relevent to your sphere of influance, and when your pretty young thats a pretty small one. You hampered with only being able to go where either your parents/relatives/friends can take you or you can take yourself which at any age is different for everyone.
And as we all know limited discresionary funds can be a pain and/or a sore subject.
A moron thats who.
Well, I didn't mean that they would immediately sell them online. I guess I wasn't clear. I meant bought them to sell them years later on eBay and make profit. And of course they inflate shipping. And of course they use tax as an excuse. Yes, I rarely do get to go to Target, and yes, I hardly get any money ($20 per month spending money). But as a response to the moron idea, no, they are not morons if they are selling them years later. They know precisely what they are doing. But next time I'll be more clear. (And by the way, I knew you weren't refering to me with that moron thing. No offense taken.)
darth jason wrote:When you mark things up from wholesale in alot of industries the standard number thrown around is 20%, now thats mark up not profit...The market determins that, period. Anyone remember what happened to the comic book and card market in the late 80's and early 90's when the bottom fell out? But what your saying is someone skip this and buy something at MSRP or higher and then marking up and reducing their profit margin even further. Ive worked in trucking for a long time and profits are at 7% conservativly and thats with a lot of money coming in and going out. So someone destroying their retail profit margin which is way higher than services since your selling widgets and not hours/labour and all the gooblygook.
Okay, you know I wasn't around during the late 80s and early 90s. But I get the basic idea. However, this paragraph of your post isn't very clear to me. What you seem to be saying is that from wholesale, the RP is usually 20% markup. Now, I think you're saying that the market determines profit, which makes perfect sense. And I'm not sure what you are saying in your last few sentences. What I said was people buying multiple sets at MSRP and selling them online for a markup. That does happen. Check 7666 on Bricklink and you'll know what I mean. Then you say you've worked in trucking and, working conservatively, your profit is 7%, and there is a lot of selling and buying. However, the last sentence, I don't understand at all.
darth jason wrote:Using this we can say that...
Lego dosent produce enough sets to cause a market deflation, the world economy is doing that right now since little stock of any kind is moving and inventories are high, thus all the sales..and there are alot of them.So sorry but unless they go out of business prices arent going to rapidly drop.
Okay, you're way off track here. I am talking about people reselling LEGO online, not LEGO selling sets at retail. I'm not complaining about prices, nor is anyone in this thread. The only prices we are complaining about are scalpers selling the sets online.
darth jason wrote:Lego dosent produce few enough sets for someone pacticing this type of "scalping" to really hamper anyones ability to pick up a set in the retail market or online. If it does..How can you prove that, whos to say 5 different people didnt buy the 5 tanks? And if they did its not hurting anyone they should have used some initiative and called the store for availability and had one held.Now this is different if someone holds on the the sets and resells them later when the sets are out of production but again its all relative to the market.
Okay, I'll try a specific example. Lets say, 7666, is sold at Toys "R" Us and is known to be limited edition. There is one scalper (hereafter known as "Gregory") who walks into to TRU knowing this, and prepares to take advantage of it. He sees the shelf space for 7666. Gregory knows that once these are gone there will be a frantic scramble for these online. So he buys all five on the shelf, ready to resell them in 6 months. Half an hour later, a seven year old (hereafter known as "Little Timmy") comes into the store. For weeks, he has been saving for 7666. He is set on getting one today. Little Timmy walks to the LEGO aisle, and finds the space for 7666. He sees that there are none there. Little Timmy leaves the store unhappy just because one guy wanted to make some money.
On 5 different people buying the tanks, what happens happens. Just so long as it wasn't one guy intent on making money. On calling for availability, most parents don't do that.
darth jason wrote:It seems these "scalpers" are pretty easy to put out of business being that they are obviously not that bright and not real scalpers but poor hustlers and i dont think this is a real problem just more of a boogy man explanation for why stores maintain poor stocks. thats why scalpers do shows its a limited engagement, the prices only go up close to D-day and if it sells out earlier they go up faster, there is no stock to maintain and it is as defined a "quick turnover", trying to sell a lego set for 25% over retail plus shipping while others are moving stuff cheaper is not going to have a fast turnaround.
Bottom line dont buy from someone like this you'd be a bigger fool then they are.
Okay, selling it for 25% over retail online is feasibly going to happen after market. Again, look on Bricklink at 7666, and keep in mind that the retail was $50. They are scalpers, because they are buying multiple items to sell them at a profit. And this is a real problem. Just read this quote from Ace earlier in the thread:
Ace, who is our founder and therefore a reliable resource, wrote:I'm totally going off here, but how many of you remember the big star wars day at toys r us last summer to celebrate the 30 yr anniversary? i was at san diego comic con that day and we went to the local TRU. once we were let inside, one guy took his cart and loaded up on 7666, took every single set he could find. 10 minutes later, i see a little boy and his grandma, no joke, looking through the lego stuff. I asked what they were looking for and they said 7666. i told them to ask one of the workers for more and told them that there are no more on the shelf (since they wouldn't restock until there was room). a few seconds later, the kid happy as a clam walked up to the cashier. the mom thanked me cause i had the foresight to know how those stupid midnight releases worked. had i not been there, he would have gone home disappointed. just because there were other means of getting it, it wouldn't have been as much fun for that boy. slurping up all the available stock can make you a rich man for sure, but at the cost of affecting others negatively.
As you can see, this is a real problem that does touch many lives.
Okay, as a side note, I have to stop using "but" to start my sentences. I get in the habit, then I use it at school which makes my teacher mad.
I don't know why I dropped back here again lately. LEGO can no longer hold my interest, and I'm almost certainly gone forever. Bye to all who remember me.