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Star Wars On Blu-Ray Up For Pre-order

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Re: Star Wars On Blu-Ray Up For Pre-order

Postby Flesh Skywalker » Mon May 09, 2011 5:35 am

Inzane wrote:But as expected, no original version OT films included. Grrrr.....


From a certain point of view, any story you tell evolves. Don't tell me you have a story that you tell exactly the same way every time and it happened just as you say it does in the story. You don't and it didn't. My best friend tells a story about me in college that gets better and more ridiculous every time he tells it. I love it when he has to tell it to someone who hasn't heard it before and I get to hear it again. It's the same for me with these movies. The fact that nearly all other directors don't do this amplifies you attention to the changes made. They are George's stories and he can change anything he wants until he dies. That's the earliest you guys can expect a chance at getting the original theatrical release of the movies on whatever format available then.

My only problems with the changes are musical, I don't like the new tunes in ROTJ. That's just my taste (or lack thereof) in music.
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Re: Star Wars On Blu-Ray Up For Pre-order

Postby Flynn » Mon May 09, 2011 3:56 pm

Flesh Skywalker wrote:From a certain point of view, any story you tell evolves. Don't tell me you have a story that you tell exactly the same way every time and it happened just as you say it does in the story. You don't and it didn't. My best friend tells a story about me in college that gets better and more ridiculous every time he tells it. I love it when he has to tell it to someone who hasn't heard it before and I get to hear it again. It's the same for me with these movies. The fact that nearly all other directors don't do this amplifies you attention to the changes made. They are George's stories and he can change anything he wants until he dies. That's the earliest you guys can expect a chance at getting the original theatrical release of the movies on whatever format available then.


Well, the only problem is that this isn't oral storytelling that varies with each performance- it's cinema, what ranks next to literature as the most "set-in-stone" method of storytelling. It's not so much a matter of the story evolving as it is going back and changing what was already released. Now, to a certain extent I'm fine with this- many Director's Cuts, Extended Editions, and the like actually improve upon the original release, and in the case of something like Blade Runner or Superman II, are closer to the director's original vision of the film (In terms of editing, mind you), which wasn't originally achieved, usually due to studio intervention.

In the case of Star Wars, it's a matter of George claiming that the original versions of the films were only about at 30% of his "original vision"- a figure that comes off as so incredibly insulting to the many people who worked countless hours getting those visual effects just perfect and all the people who slaved to make Star Wars the classic it is today. So all that George really does is touch up on effects that really didn't need to be touched up on, and add in a lot of pointless filler and eye candy (Often to the point of distraction- I'm looking at you, Mos Eisley and Jabba's Palace...).

The fundamental problem behind Lucas as a director is that he views film-making as something between the director and the film, with no one else coming in between the director's vision. In reality, though, editors, writers, actors, and so many other people involved with a film can help add to or deepen the director's initial vision. A great line is meaningless unless it's delivered with a powerful performance. A thrilling chase scene can't happen without the proper editing, visual and audio effects, and a good score to boot. It takes a director to put all those things together, but he is not the sole contributor to the scene. I think after Lucas took the mantle of writing, producing, directing, and partially re-editing Star Wars, it warped his view a little of how a film should be made, and I think made him feel he was the only visionary behind it. It certainly explains his love of CGI (Which effectively negates all other contributors except sound editors and actors), and how he feels he has the right to go back and needlessly change what so many people toiled to make so many years ago.

Sometimes a director could be unhappy with how he handled the film, and might wish for a re-edit or something similar to better convey how he thought the film should've been directed. That is fine, and I can perfectly understand that. However, that's not what Lucas is doing. He's changing it for the sake of doing everything he wants to with CGI, and doesn't really take into account whether it positively or negatively impacts the film. And that's lazy film-making, first and foremost.
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Re: Star Wars On Blu-Ray Up For Pre-order

Postby Inzane » Tue May 10, 2011 8:28 am

Flynn wrote:that's not what Lucas is doing. He's changing it for the sake of doing everything he wants to ...


Exactly.

A classic example of how the changes to Ep IV kinda screwed things up:

They originally filmed a "jabba" scene with the stand-in actor, but scrapped it when they couldn't work up a solution for the Jabba costume/creature design at the time. So as far as I recall, they reworked some of the script to incorporate more about Jabba in the Han-Greedo scene to compensate. And the way those scenes stood in the original theatrical version, it worked.

Then, on top of that, in the version of the film as we know and love it, the scene when Luke and company walk into Docking Bay 94 for the first time ("What a piece of junk...") it is the big REVEAL of the Millenium Falcon, for the first time. We see it from Luke's perspective.

Well, when Lucas put the Jabba scene back IN the film (with CGI jabba), now due to sequencing the MF reveal is kinda ruined. Its just THERE in the background during the Han-Jabba scene, and when later Luke & co. walk in the effect is lost.

Then to add insult to injury, he inserted Boba Fett into the scene too. (If you check the vintage footage of the Jabba stand-in actor scene, I'm pretty sure he's not there). When you think about it, there is no logical reason for BF to be there. (Han just killed a bounty hunter who wasn't going to let him go without money. Why would BF be rolling with Jabba's crew like he's one of the staff when he's got a personal vested interest in the bounty for Han, and then stand idly by while Jabba lets him go???)
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Re: Star Wars On Blu-Ray Up For Pre-order

Postby Gingerbeard Man » Wed May 11, 2011 4:21 am

Inzane wrote:Why would BF be rolling with Jabba's crew

Simply because Lucas has realized that Boba is a very popular character.
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Re: Star Wars On Blu-Ray Up For Pre-order

Postby Inzane » Wed May 11, 2011 7:32 am

Gingerbeard Man wrote:
Inzane wrote:Why would BF be rolling with Jabba's crew

Simply because Lucas has realized that Boba is a very popular character.


That's not good enough. Putting him in that scene just for the sake of a fan call-out or whatever was just lame and contrived.
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Re: Star Wars On Blu-Ray Up For Pre-order

Postby Gingerbeard Man » Thu May 12, 2011 4:06 am

Unfortunately "lame and contrived" is exactly what I have come to expect from much of the Star Wars franchise over the last 15 years. :(
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Re: Star Wars On Blu-Ray Up For Pre-order

Postby StoutFiles » Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:58 pm

Inzane wrote:They originally filmed a "jabba" scene with the stand-in actor, but scrapped it when they couldn't work up a solution for the Jabba costume/creature design at the time. So as far as I recall, they reworked some of the script to incorporate more about Jabba in the Han-Greedo scene to compensate. And the way those scenes stood in the original theatrical version, it worked.


Agreed. Showing off Jabba now also ruins the big reveal of Jabba in Episode VI. However, this is now somewhat ruined by Episode 1 if someone new to the series watches them in chronological order.

Inzane wrote:Well, when Lucas put the Jabba scene back IN the film (with CGI jabba), now due to sequencing the MF reveal is kinda ruined. Its just THERE in the background during the Han-Jabba scene, and when later Luke & co. walk in the effect is lost.


Yeah, but since it's not the focal point of the scene it's not a huge loss. It's still a pointless scene though.

Inzane wrote:Then to add insult to injury, he inserted Boba Fett into the scene too. (If you check the vintage footage of the Jabba stand-in actor scene, I'm pretty sure he's not there). When you think about it, there is no logical reason for BF to be there. (Han just killed a bounty hunter who wasn't going to let him go without money. Why would BF be rolling with Jabba's crew like he's one of the staff when he's got a personal vested interest in the bounty for Han, and then stand idly by while Jabba lets him go???)


I don't have a problem with this. As Lucas put this scene in to connect this movie to RotJ, he's doing the same with Boba. Boba DID work with Jabba a lot as he paid handsomely and treated him like royalty when Boba was there (food/women). Jabba had planned to take Han in (hence the need for Boba) but Han convinced him to change his mind.

However, the REAL reason for the scene is because Lucas wanted to give a reason for everyone to go see a movie they've already seen. Each movie has at least one new scene in it (Docking Bay, Wampa, Jabba's band) along with the improved special effects.
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Re: Star Wars On Blu-Ray Up For Pre-order

Postby that guy » Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:04 am

I couldn't agree more with most of the comments here about re-doing things over and over and how it dilutes the impact and memory of the original films. I've said it before here, but once you go down this road, you can't undo it and sadly we're about 10 miles down this road now. I can only imagine at some point we'll see Han Solo in Ep V tell Leia he actually "loves her too" (basically what the original script asked for) instead of "I know" (which was wonderfully ad-libbed mind you), and furthermore we may see some diatribe from Vader telling Lando that instead of "altering the deal" he is, "taking it upon himself to fulfill his sense of duty to the Emperor to adjust his original dealings and agreements in an attempt to gain a stronger foothold in that system, thus leading to a stronger applied front when dealing with the rebels and those who not only agree with, but choose to support them as well as any other non-empirical masses regardless of race, party, religion, or planetary origin." Just my 2 cents, but at this point we really could see anything change next time they 'remaster' one of these movies.
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Re: Star Wars On Blu-Ray Up For Pre-order

Postby StoutFiles » Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:25 pm

Amazon had to combine all the SW reviews (DVD included) to help the OT Blu Ray collection save face.

So many one star reviews. It's actually pretty amazing to read the comments of so many pissed off SW fans that may never get the unaltered OT in HD.
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Re: Star Wars On Blu-Ray Up For Pre-order

Postby onions » Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:10 pm

i noticed that myself.

and as much as i hate the additional footage and altered scenes, i have to admit that the redone assault on the death star in ep. iv is pretty spectacular. from the liftoff from yavin to the exploding death star, it's the only shining spot to come out of the rehashes.
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Re: Star Wars On Blu-Ray Up For Pre-order

Postby StoutFiles » Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:12 pm

onions wrote:i noticed that myself.

and as much as i hate the additional footage and altered scenes, i have to admit that the redone assault on the death star in ep. iv is pretty spectacular. from the liftoff from yavin to the exploding death star, it's the only shining spot to come out of the rehashes.


There are many things I both like and don't like about the SE. I don't have a problem with the SE as a selectable choice, but to overwrite the original and not give the option to fall back to is disappointing to say the least.

The reason fans should really be angry is that blu-ray takes advantage of a 4k or 8k resolution which is what 35mm film can become. The SE was scanned in at 1080p so, yes, the original 35mm film has better blu-ray potential than the newer SE. Lucas claims the SE wrote over the original film so there's little hope he'll go back on that statement or let a copy be used.

For the prequel trilogy, Episode 1 can max out at 2k resolution, but Episodes II and III were shot in 1080p so they cant get any better.
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Re: Star Wars On Blu-Ray Up For Pre-order

Postby shainentinpock » Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:36 am

I don't really own many BluRays. This might the one series that I must have on Blu-Ray.
I love legos but I want Fijit Friends and Angry Birds Knock On Wood sets.
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Re: Star Wars On Blu-Ray Up For Pre-order

Postby SonOfSolo » Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:00 am

I agree with most of the hate towards the SE films. I also will be on the fence with getting this as I already own a million copies of these movies in one form or another. I have all 6 films saved in my sons room on his Tivo so we can watch them whenever he wants and I just realized that at almost 4 years old he watches the OT more than the new ones also. What sucks though is they are the SE ones and not the original theatrical versions. You can't even see those anymore on TV. It's always the SE now. >8(
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Re: Star Wars On Blu-Ray Up For Pre-order

Postby Inzane » Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:10 am

I can't wait to not buy this.

I at least intend to wait until the dust has settled following the release and see if any fan backlash is enough to actually motivate Lucasarts to address the main concern.

Also, pricing on this set will likely take a drop over the next few years as well. I'm in no rush, especially if it's just to get an updated set of the bastardized movies I already own as DVDs.
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Re: Star Wars On Blu-Ray Up For Pre-order

Postby Blacknight » Sat Aug 20, 2011 10:47 pm

From the latest trailers (http://www.starwars.com/movies/saga/) it seems they still haven't fixed basic problems from the DVD release like Vader's pink lightsabre in the carbon freezing chamber: :facepalm:

There's no way I'm buying this whole $100 money grab when it comes out next month. For one thing, I hate the understated young Anakin pencil crayon cover of the complete set, it hardly does justice to the epicness of Star Wars. More importantly, it just seems Lucas(film) has phoned the whole thing in and done as little actual work as possible, especially for the OT. I mean really, I think any of us could do a better job of this set if we were in charge of Lucasfilm and weren't trying to extract maximum profit with minimum effort.

I might get the prequel trilogy set someday if I see it on sale since it seems likely to be the only set that will actually look much better on blu-ray. With Lucasfilm being too cheap to do a proper new high def transfer of the original trilogy, you're basically just paying for your DVD version again. Plus of course as discussed above, some of their SE alterations to the OT still leave a sour taste in my mouth, especially to RoTJ (annoying CG Jabba dancers and loss of the ewok end song). The Phantom Menace DVD was substandard resolution compared to the rest and I only own AoTC in fullscreen, so this will be my first chance to own the prequels in a quality that does them justice (I'm talking about their technical picture quality, not debateable artistic and acting quality). And I guess 1080p is the best AoTC and RotS will ever look, unfortunately. I also wait with baited breath (not) to see whether they added a CG Yoda to PM. Not like he did anything in that movie besides sit around anyway.
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Re: Star Wars On Blu-Ray Up For Pre-order

Postby Flynn » Sun Aug 21, 2011 12:03 am

Blacknight wrote:Plus of course as discussed above, some of their SE alterations to the OT still leave a sour taste in my mouth, especially to RoTJ (annoying CG Jabba dancers and loss of the ewok end song).


I'd actually disagree with you on the final point- although the SE RoTJ remains my least favorite of the altered films, I think the best bit from the various changes is the new ending song. I mean, I really like "Yub Nub" and I think it fits better with the Ewok village, but the song that replaces it works much better as the closing song of a trilogy (And a saga, if you want to see it that way). It's rhythmic and upbeat, but also has a poignant side to it, making it really seem like the end of a journey.

I could do without the needless shots of the galaxy celebrating (Though I see why they're there), but that newer ending song is, in my opinion, absolutely perfect.
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Re: Star Wars On Blu-Ray Up For Pre-order

Postby StoutFiles » Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:25 pm

Flynn wrote:
Blacknight wrote:Plus of course as discussed above, some of their SE alterations to the OT still leave a sour taste in my mouth, especially to RoTJ (annoying CG Jabba dancers and loss of the ewok end song).


I'd actually disagree with you on the final point- although the SE RoTJ remains my least favorite of the altered films, I think the best bit from the various changes is the new ending song. I mean, I really like "Yub Nub" and I think it fits better with the Ewok village, but the song that replaces it works much better as the closing song of a trilogy (And a saga, if you want to see it that way). It's rhythmic and upbeat, but also has a poignant side to it, making it really seem like the end of a journey.

I could do without the needless shots of the galaxy celebrating (Though I see why they're there), but that newer ending song is, in my opinion, absolutely perfect.


That's missing the point though, people want the untouched versions they saw in theaters. I personally think the new Wampa scene is better, but to not let people have the choice to see the original is asinine. It's writing over history.
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Re: Star Wars On Blu-Ray Up For Pre-order

Postby Flynn » Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:35 pm

Oh, no, I agree with you completely on that point- I think it's ridiculous to not give your audience the choice of which version to watch. I was just defending what I thought was one of the few redeemable changes in the films.
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Re: Star Wars On Blu-Ray Up For Pre-order

Postby Blacknight » Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:28 am

I guess I just liked the more upbeat nature of the original ewok song, as a "celebration" of sorts over the final defeat of the Emperor. The ewok song ending for Return of the Jedi is kind of the anti-Revenge of the Sith ending in that there's not a hint of brooding melancholy. It clearly differentiates the two movies with similar names. Oh yeah, I also forgot to mention the SE addition of Hayden Christensen with creepy pycho stare. Those two changes make the ending of RoTJ less happy than it used to be. I guess I liked the additional fly-by scenes of the celebrating cities, though they're sort of unnecessary, and they manage to remind me of Jar-Jar.
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Re: Star Wars On Blu-Ray Up For Pre-order

Postby Flynn » Mon Aug 22, 2011 8:44 pm

To be fair, the Christiansen change was only in the Special-Special Edition in 2006, not the original VHS editions.
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