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FBTB Toy Fair Coverage - 2009

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Re: FBTB Toy Fair Coverage - 2009

Postby BrickSith206 » Mon Feb 16, 2009 12:18 pm

lordvader208 wrote:
MrCRskater wrote:Take a step back, fellas. We don't have any reason to complain about a $25 price tag for the upcoming Hoth set. We've been begging for an official Tauntaun figure for years, practically on our knees. Now they've not only created a brand new mold to produce it, not merely included it as part of a monster Hoth set, but created an affordable set that revolves solely around it, and we're upset/disappointed/perturbed that it's a mere $5 more than we had hoped?! The phrase "bite the hand that feeds you" comes to mind. . . let's not be such thankless ingrates!



I only say that it's $5 overpriced because I don't want TLC to be thinking that they can now charge $25 for all sets that should cost $20. Then in a year, they might start charging an extra $5 just because everyone thinks $25 is a good deal. That makes it $30 for a set that should only cost $20. And it may keep on rising. We should all watch out how much TLC is charging now because they may just raise it the next year.


I believe what you are referring to can be defined as inflation. Costs are up across the board for everything. Would you really expect LEGO to shoulder increasing production costs, and then giving you the same priced sets year after year, all while their profit margin decreases? If they adopt your model, I'm certain we wont be enjoying new releases like this again.

Skip the Starbucks or McDonalds just once a month and you've got your extra $5 to buy an already bargain priced set. :)
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Re: FBTB Toy Fair Coverage - 2009

Postby Teekay » Mon Feb 16, 2009 12:52 pm

Thanks for the pics, Ace! I want them all...

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Re: FBTB Toy Fair Coverage - 2009

Postby lordvader208 » Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:10 pm

BrickSith206 wrote:I believe what you are referring to can be defined as inflation. Costs are up across the board for everything. Would you really expect LEGO to shoulder increasing production costs, and then giving you the same priced sets year after year, all while their profit margin decreases? If they adopt your model, I'm certain we wont be enjoying new releases like this again.

Skip the Starbucks or McDonalds just once a month and you've got your extra $5 to buy an already bargain priced set. :)


I understand that costs are increasing, but think about it in another way. TLC has found ways to decrease production costs by offering a lower price per piece count, then having fewer minifigs per set (5 minifigs in venator compared to 10 in the star destroyer, but of course there's new molds), then having more stickers per set than before (an example would be the solar sailer). Not to say that the minfigs are bad; in fact, they're great. I'm just somewhat disappointed at how we're getting less for more. Of course, the new sets are great, and I will probably still get the hoth set.

Just keep in mind that not everyone here is an adult (meaning the kids don't have control over what sets they can buy), and money doesn't grow on trees. And think about the economy right now. There is not as much disposable income so now the aggregate demand (I'll throw in some economics for ya :) ) will decrease on Legos as they get more expensive.

Solo wrote:That's just flat our ridiculous. We all know why this set is $5 over the expected price. If you don't, I'll give you a hint. It starts with "Taun" and ends with "Taun". Possibly the single most requested mold gets made, it's awesome, and these sets will sell like friggin hot cakes. Hoth cakes if you will. And you better frigin stockpile these suckers, because a week after they disappear, you'll easily fetch $20 for those beasties alone. And probably $5 per pair of goggles too.


And here's another thought. TLC charges extra $5 for basically two new molds in the hoth set, the helmet and the tauntaun. And let's say that they produce probably 30,000 hoth sets throughout the production run (ok, i don't know the exact number). So does it really cost $150,000 to develop two molds? I honestly don't know the answer to this. If you do, then tell me and I can understand why there is a price increase.

And yes, I do know that it's the "single most requested mold" that makes this set more expensive. Please, don't assume that others are idiots just because they are disappointed by a price increase. No one ever insulted you in the first place.
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Re: FBTB Toy Fair Coverage - 2009

Postby MrCRskater » Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:36 pm

lordvader208 wrote:And here's another thought. TLC charges extra $5 for basically two new molds in the hoth set, the helmet and the tauntaun. And let's say that they produce probably 30,000 hoth sets throughout the production run (ok, i don't know the exact number). So does it really cost $150,000 to develop two molds?


The lack of thought put into this statement is shocking :shock: Of course it doesn't cost $150k to develop two molds. But your extra $5/set is not paying JUST for the two new elements. There are 155 pieces, so LEGO has to make back production costs for ALL pieces (not just new pieces) - including development (not just of new molds, they gotta pay some guys to dream up the whole set!), manufacturing, advertisement, distribution, packaging, etc. - and also needs to make some sort of profit on top of that. A business isn't any good if it's not making a profit.

I don't want to perpetuate any silly debates here. I will just reiterate my original point which was $25 is absolutely a fair price for a set with all the goods (5 minifigs and a new creature mold), and anyone who is silly enough to complain about a mere $5 more than they had hoped to spend is foolish.
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Re: FBTB Toy Fair Coverage - 2009

Postby Solo » Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:45 pm

OK, to be fair I'm only really addressing the idiots that think they're getting ripped off here. It's fine if you don't like it and all that, but saying "it's not fair" or thinking this will mean every $20 set will now become a $25 set? Come on. Seriously.
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Re: FBTB Toy Fair Coverage - 2009

Postby lordvader208 » Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:53 pm

the 155 pieces and the development, manufacturing, advertisement, distribution, packaging etc goes towards the other $20, not just the $5. Doh! Isn't the previous $20 per set we payed for count towards the development, manufacturing, advertisement, distribution, packaging, profit, piece, whatever etc. It's the same this time too, but the price is $5 higher because we get 2 new great molds. You're basically stating that the $5 goes for all of the above, and seem to have forgotten about the other $20

And by the way, the tank droid is also $25 i believe? Again, a new mold.

And get this right people, I wasn't complaining. I don't know why anyone would take this so seriously as to try and insult other people. Doesn't everyone have an opinion? Surely you understand that, right? That's why there's no reason to be attacking other people's opinions.
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Re: FBTB Toy Fair Coverage - 2009

Postby LFN » Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:03 pm

If one was to complain about a $25 set, it would be about the tank droid actually. Compared to the Hoth base set, it has 4 minifigs (2 "normal" and 2 battle droids :S ) to Hoth's 5 (5 "normal" figs), as well as teh fact that it gives us a lame springboard contrapment aside from the main model, instead of a OMGWTFBBQHAXXREQUEST tauntaun. Personally, with the cheap source of snowtroopers, new and more accurate goggle molds (TLC really didnt have to do that. its a nice touch), and the entirely new mold tauntaun, I have no complaints about the price.

*edit

Oh right. For those that don't like it and refuse to buy it, I guess it means there's a couple more for me.
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Re: FBTB Toy Fair Coverage - 2009

Postby lordvader208 » Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:11 pm

Solo wrote:OK, to be fair I'm only really addressing the idiots that think they're getting ripped off here. It's fine if you don't like it and all that, but saying "it's not fair" or thinking this will mean every $20 set will now become a $25 set? Come on. Seriously.


I don't think I ever said "it's not fair". If you look back on my comment about all the new sets, I don't believe I ever said that. Nor did I say I didn't like the set. Nor did I complain about it. Both the tank droid and hoth are great sets, just strange that TLC is starting to charge $5 more.

In response to LFN:

Yes you're right. It doesn't have as many minifigs nor as great of minifigs as the hoth set does. But what it does have is 200+ pieces (well the treads take up a lot of pieces) :) Either way, i like both. The tank droid is nice for its looks and the hoth for it's minifigs. Two different approaches to two different sets.
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Re: FBTB Toy Fair Coverage - 2009

Postby onions » Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:26 pm

unless a member of the LEGO community is willing to step forward and divulge the exact financial data behind pricing the set as it is, and the chances of that happerning are NIL, we can only assume that TLG is doing what they can to provide a highly demanded mold for a reasonable cost. They could have easily stuck it in $100 dollar set, excluding a mass majority of fans. Remember ANH Leia? Snowtroopers? Those were very out-of-reach for a lot of people. Snowtroopers are now more easily available, but it took a long time for that to happen. Endor Rebel Troopers... that's another issue for discussion.

Also, it's quite possible that the mold to make the tauntaun is much more expensive than we are assuming. it's a large element, and fewer can be made on the same mold block than say a new helmet or hair element. if that's for better or for worse, i have no idea. They could also be spreading the cost of all new things across their entire summer line up also, or selling this set at a loss.

Compare this: Cantina set, MSRP $30, 194 pcs, dewback, rodian head were the new molds in that set. $25 bucks, you get a tauntaun. 155 pcs. Price to parts ratio is about the same even though you're getting 1 less new mold. but in this economy, times are tough and i for one am able to see the value in this set.

I can only hope the tauntaun is abs and not any other cheap material.

in any case, lordvader28, you seem to be stuck on your side of the issue despite numerous members trying to convince it is, in fact, a fair price. so let's not speak of the issue of cost anymore, mmkay? another peep out of you about this and i'll have to issue you a warning. i'm sick of the whining on this set already.
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Re: FBTB Toy Fair Coverage - 2009

Postby Solo » Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:37 pm

Thanks for pointing out that I haven't in fact called you an idiot lv. You're getting awfully worked up over some general statements I've made and for that I apologize.

I want everyone doubting the value of the set to consider this: do you seriously think the Taun Taun should be considered a 10 cent part? It's not just the development cost, it's a large specialized element that required numerous additional steps compared to the average part. Aside from conceptualizing, sculpting, audience testing, redesigning for production, structural testing, building a mold, testing the mold, and requiring a new machine or employee to assemble every one of them - it's a far more volumetric element than usual and will flat out cost more to produce and develop. I can assure you it's not an easy process, and I guarantee I missed some steps. The Taun Taun would clearly cost over $5 if sold on it's own.

The Hoth set has this great new critter plus a two part scene and five figures, four of which are perfect for building a balanced Hoth war. It's a battle pack on steroids. If you took Han and the Taun Taun out and called that it's own set for, say, $7.99 - then cut the piece count in half and called the left over figures with a chuck of Hoth a Battle Pack, it wouldn't seem so strange. But because it's all together, and combined with my observation on the general rising cost of sets all across the board, the $25 for it is reasonable for a retail price and should be any surprise.
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Re: FBTB Toy Fair Coverage - 2009

Postby lordvader208 » Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:41 pm

OK, onions, you can give me a warning for saying this if you want, but let me just please make my point clear.

No one here has yet to realize that I am not complaining at all about the price. I merely said it was overpriced. What did I ever do? I just stated that ok, this set is $5 more than it should be, because we are all used to having sets that are $20. That was it. I was not complaining; in fact, I have this set as one of the sets I want to get from this year. If I really complained about it, I would not buy it or even think about buying it. I only stated that it is $5 more than it should be. That's all there is to it. I will adjust to the new prices, I never said I wouldn't. I understand $5 isn't much, but there are those out there where it really means something. Again, all I did was say that it is $5 more than it should be. I have already stated in previous posts that I wasn't at all complaining, just expressing my opinions. If you look back to the first page, I actually complimented on the hoth set because it is great for the figures, despite its price tag. But what do I get in return? Someone saying I'm an idiot and using unnecessary sarcasm (I thought sarcasm was one of the things members should not use on forums) and then someone remarking on my "lack of thought" and that I am "foolish"

Anyways, I do hope you understand my point. And by the way, we are getting the same number of new molds as in the cantina set (you forgot about the goggles!!!) :D
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Re: FBTB Toy Fair Coverage - 2009

Postby Masta' Bo » Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:49 pm

Palpatine wrote:Kill him. Kill him now.
;)

I like the Venator's features a lot, on closer inspection (thanks for adding the videos to go along with the pics, guys!). The blue clone guards' helmets are so neat. They look, I don't know...really unique. The handle is a nice additon, also.

Question at Ace or Mike: When you hold the handle of the Venator, does it feel like it'll will fall apart (or pieces will fall off) if you move it suddenly or swoosh it? It has so many detachable goodies, but they seem like they'll get swept off of the ship. The system scale ISD isn't truly study, so you can see why I'm curious about the latest take on it.
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Re: FBTB Toy Fair Coverage - 2009

Postby Solo » Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:54 pm

Saying it's overpriced is complaining, because you're saying it's priced more than it should be. Just because you're still going to buy it doesn't negate the fact that you're commenting on what you view as an unnecessary price increase. I'm simply trying to explain that it makes sense - and that you, simply, do not.;)

But anyways, Ace posted his message as I was typing mine, and he obviously wants this dropped. So dropped it is.
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Re: FBTB Toy Fair Coverage - 2009

Postby Kyle » Mon Feb 16, 2009 5:11 pm

I think all of the new sets should be free. Nay, LEGO should pay me to receive them!
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Re: FBTB Toy Fair Coverage - 2009

Postby BrickSith206 » Mon Feb 16, 2009 6:25 pm

Wow. It's about all I have to say with regards to the complainers. More $25 sets for me. What is probably the funniest thing to me is....Lego has never, EVER, been cheap. Quite obviously, it's a more expensive toy/collector item, and has ALWAYS attracted a more affluent fan base. In the interest of moving this thread back OT. I cant wait to mod a Taun Taun :D
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Re: FBTB Toy Fair Coverage - 2009

Postby Iare Tosevite » Mon Feb 16, 2009 7:46 pm

Don't buy those sets. 25 bucks is just too darned expensive! Nobody will be interested in taun taun!


Hope it worked... I want all of it for myself! muhhahhahhaaa!
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Re: FBTB Toy Fair Coverage - 2009

Postby natelite » Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:22 pm

onions wrote:I can only hope the tauntaun is abs and not any other cheap material.


the recent cows from the medieval market village set are not from abs. they sound (eg. when you knock it against the table) and feel different when compared to the lego horse. it's also lighter in density and color (when compared to the reddish brown brick you use to fill the cow).

the print on the box (parts are made in denmark and china) kinda led me to believe the cows were made in china from a rubber compound rather than plastic abs. i would think the tauntaun would be made from similar process and material to cut cost. we won't know until we have this set in our hands in aug. XD
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Re: FBTB Toy Fair Coverage - 2009

Postby Draykov » Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:51 pm

BrickSith206 wrote: Quite obviously, it's a more expensive toy/collector item, and has ALWAYS attracted a more affluent fan base.


"No, Mom, you idiot! I have Bloodstorm, and Bone Squad, and Bloodstorm II...stupid."
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Re: FBTB Toy Fair Coverage - 2009

Postby Blue Squadron » Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:37 am

First, it's great to be back on the forums! I know it's beena while but, hey, real life kinds gets in the way sometimes...! :roll:

Second - WOW! So many things we've been waiting for over SO many years since the SW licence started: Admiral Ackbar, General Lando, General Madine, the taun-taun... :D

I'm a bit of an oldie compared to many round here; yes, I can still remember seeing Episode IV (or just plain "Star Wars" as we called it back then...!) in the cinema in '77. With that in mind, I'm very much an original trilogy fan so I'm most excited by the prospect of the Hoth, Endor and Home One sets.

It's been a whuile since I bought SW Lego as much as I did when the line started but I might just have to start putting some money aside for later this year... ;)

That and finally taking the plunge and splurging some hard-earned cash on the Death Star! XD
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Re: FBTB Toy Fair Coverage - 2009

Postby BrickSith206 » Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:52 am

Draykov wrote:
BrickSith206 wrote: Quite obviously, it's a more expensive toy/collector item, and has ALWAYS attracted a more affluent fan base.


"No, Mom, you idiot! I have Bloodstorm, and Bone Squad, and Bloodstorm II...stupid."


Swing and a miss...I have no clue what you mean about Bloodstorm, that game sucked, and had nothing on MK.
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