How Awesome FBTB is NOT [Staff Appointed Title]

[The Brain]

@ copyright and dWhsiper:

tl;dr.

Those are very good observations about the state of FBTB. I don't really feel like much more can be added to that...

[jedi_master_sal]

threads about complaining about the community are worthless

esp this one

I agree. I'm going through a bit of a mess in a SW group I belong to. Things were said, people got PO'ed. And now some people don't want to work with others regarding group stuff.

These threads really don't serve a purpose other than to bring up old issues and/or bad feelings.

If the site is slow, it's slow. So be it. I've been on and still am on boards where membership used to be in the hundreds and now it's mostly less than a dozen active members.

I don't think it always has to be about the number or quality of posts, just this: Do you enjoy coming to the site? If you're answer is NO then look elsewhere. If it's sometimes, then consider contributing to the posts or stay silent and see if it goes in the direction you'd like.

Complaining end on end really does not get anywhere. Sure, once in awhile we may have a complaint. But before you do complain, try to form your post in the form of constructive criticism and not as if you're demeaning anyone.

This post isn't directed to anyone in particular, just some basic pointers from a long time forumite of many a collector message board.

So how about we lock this thread down and get back to what is fun about FBTB, LEGOs!!!

@copyright, great post!

Respectfully,
Sal

[Turkguy19]

threads about complaining about the community are worthless

esp this one

Posts complaining about a thread that complains about a community are worthless.

So how about we lock this thread down and get back to what is fun about FBTB, LEGOs!!!

I come for the community, complaining is part of the community, so I would rather see this thread alive and actually have a discussion then see another "what LEGO set do you want" thread.

[Draykov]

To be fair, this thread didn't start life as a dedicated complaint thread. The early stuff here was culled from the "2010 Sets" thread to keep it from getting derailed any further.

[onions]

Sorry for my absence. been busy with work and baby stuff, but i'm back ready to abuse the quote button:

I would expect to see exactly what you describe "a community that is all about sharing ideas from all points of view". Calling someone's post "worthless" doesn't really feed that ideal. That's really all I was trying to say.

THIS is precisely the point at which things went south, when you assumed that my comment was somehow directed towards the poster instead of the intended target of the pictures that were on the page he linked to. i thought that was pretty clear by my pointing out the one specific picture of the CTT and by my rebuttal. but no, sir, you seem to think that my comment was directed towards the person who provided the link. theJudeAbides, i'm not sure if you just hopped on the klausunion's bandwagon cause you wanted to sling some more mud in our eye or if you, too, had the same misunderstanding independent of klausunion's comment. in any case let me be clear that i would never be such the condescending prick as to attack someone like that. for anyone to assume that my character is of that nature, they are sorely and sadly mistaken.

if you don't like drama or flame wars, don't read it, don't get involved. if you can't handle a discussion and run the risk of having people disagreeing with you or having an opinion that differs than yours, don't participate.

I'd just like to point out that there's a difference between a "discussion" or difference of opinion and "flame wars". I'm all for difference of opinion and "informal debate" (i.e. definition of "discussion") and can stand a healthy dose of sarcasm, but the frequency of contemptuous comments and ...

snipped

...oint other than the fact that we're getting a turbo tank. Hopefully in a few months we'll find out what this thing can really do. . .

i can't tell if you're with me or against me. but let me clarify again that a) i was not calling the original post worthless, but rather the pictures on the page that was linked to and that b) the accusations started with klausunion who seems to have a skewed perception of my intent and the direction it was pointed to. I agree that condescension has no place a mature discussion, and if i'm guilty of the act during this discussion, i sincerely apologize as that would never be my intent. but i stress that my responses were merely trying to clarify things that has so obviously been misconstrued.

after all that has been said and done in this thread, i would invite anyone to post if they are still offended by my post or still believe i was being condescending towards the original post (which i forgot who even posted it). this is not a grass pulling, ground thumping, alpha male challenging call to out you to become targets of my wrath or anyone elses. if a strong community is what you wish and you are still left with bitter feelings, hit the reply button. let's talk.

[klausunion]

Sorry i misinterpreted your use of the word "worthless". I really don't think I have that skewed of a preception, and I don't think I'm the only one that interpreted your post as being directed at the person rather than the pics. But I don't know you and probably should have given you the benefit of the doubt.

[MrCRskater]

. . . things went south, when you assumed that my comment was somehow directed towards the poster instead of the intended target of the pictures that were on the page he linked to.

. . . but let me clarify again that a) i was not calling the original post worthless, but rather the pictures on the page that was linked to and that b) the accusations started with klausunion who seems to have a skewed perception of my intent and the direction it was pointed to. I agree that condescension has no place a mature discussion, and if i'm guilty of the act during this discussion, i sincerely apologize as that would never be my intent. but i stress that my responses were merely trying to clarify things that has so obviously been misconstrued.

Fair enough, I appreciate you being straight-forward about your intent and can see now where you were coming from. Sorry if I seemed as though I was calling you out on this point. To be honest, I wasn't really offended by your original post to Klausunion, but as he was offended I felt it was an opportunity to respectfully submit my own opinion on the social environment. As far as that goes, just want to say thanks to the staff for allowing this discussion and weighing in. It has been very enlightening to this point!

To elaborate on my original response (to onions), my only beef with your 1st response to this particular incident was that you used the terms "discussion" and "flame wars" interchangeably/synonymously, and in my eyes those are very different. Again, discussion and debate inherently include a difference of opinion, and I am all for tossing around and generating new ideas and impressions. But I feel that openly flaming folks is counter-productive as it a) typically does not contribute anything new or constructive to a discussion, and b) discourages the "flamed" from participating further. I understand that some people say some stupid things around here from time to time (myself included), but I think everyone in this community could stand to be a little more forgiving and understanding. A little sarcasm never hurt anyone, but overtly sarcastic comments that are clearly designed to berate are lame.

[BlueDragonZ]

First, don’t disparage other members on the boards. That means no name calling, snide posts, or sarcastic responses.

I'd have to say, both onions and draykov's responses have been far more disparaging, snide, and sarcastic than I would expect from the mods/admins. Isn't it you guys job to not only enforce the rules but to lead by example? When some viewers (particularly younger ones) see you guys behaving this way, they think that makes it OK for them to do the same.

I know that it's your site, onions, and that you certainly have the "right" to post however you choose. But you also have to realize that, much like any other leader, you're held to a higher standard than everyone else and your actions and posts will directly affect the direction of these forums. /

It seems like FBTB is a much more harsh place than it used to be and I don't particularly like that I've contributed to that at times. I like FBTB and the people here, but it seems the good-natured sarcasm I remember has become a lot more cutting as of late. I could be a victim of nostalgia, but I think it's worth considering.

- Aaron

I agree with both of you. I have seen an increased number of flaming going on around here and people's posts / opinions are critizied by Draykov and Onions. This will further reduce people's contributions & posts fearing they may be critized and not respected.

Some people may have a different views on the way one writes. Example would be the word worthless aimed at the CTT.

[onions]

I agree with both of you. I have seen an increased number of flaming going on around here and people's posts / opinions are critizied by Draykov and Onions. This will further reduce people's contributions & posts fearing they may be critized and not respected.

Some people may have a different views on the way one writes. Example would be the word worthless aimed at the CTT.

When did i criticize someone's post? or draykov for that matter?

and i'm not entirely sure your the last sentence is about. i thought we had sufficiently covered the misunderstanding about that post. are you taking issue with my opinion about the photo? could you clarify?

[BlueDragonZ]

and i'm not entirely sure your the last sentence is about. i thought we had sufficiently covered the misunderstanding about that post. are you taking issue with my opinion about the photo? could you clarify?

The last sentence is an example of the post "worthless". Fortunatley, its been cleared up and I'm glad Onions didn't mean to offend the original poster. Its just to show that people may have a different views on the way one writes.

[The Brain]

Honestly, anyone who's so incredibly sensitive about finding their writing criticized should not be on internet forums. It should be easy enough to have a thick skin about "flaming" and criticism; brush it off if it's not useful or if it's meant to be provocative, and address it logically if you really must. Despite the fact that this is a internet "community" (and one that I truly enjoy, at that), very few of us actually have met the other members on this site in person. If someone you don't know says something you don't like, it shouldn't have a huge effect on your non-cyber persona's esteem. Suck it up people.

[Draykov]

I agree with both of you. I have seen an increased number of flaming going on around here and people's posts / opinions are critizied by Draykov and Onions. This will further reduce people's contributions & posts fearing they may be critized and not respected.

Your opinion sucks. Let's see if that stops you.

In all honesty, I'm not sure what you're referring to. I don't generally consider myself mean or disparaging. Candid? Sure. Stern when necessary? Yes...comes with the territory. But to "criticize someone's opinion" sounds to me like another way of saying "disagree." I admit,there are a lot of opinions floating around these parts that I openly disagree with. As for respect, you have to earn that. Not much I can do to take that away from anyone but myself.

[MrCRskater]

As for respect, you have to earn that.

Again, I see no problem with this philosophy, but in some cases it appears that people then take it as license to be discourteous and even hostile (not calling you out, Draykov, just commenting in general). Nobody has to be all rainbows and lollipops with every single member, but I do think everyone is entitled to a little bit of dignity and respect on a fundamental level. This sort of decorum is even outlined in FBTB's COC:

First, don’t disparage other members on the boards. That means no name calling, snide posts, or sarcastic responses. . . instead of responding to a misguided post with the most caustic vitriol you can manage, maybe be helpful. Instead of calling out the member publicly, why not send a PM with some helpful links and offer to help.

As for BluDragonZ's post, I agree that Draykov can be hard-nosed about a lot of things, but that's not always a bad thing. And to respond to Draykov's assertion that

to "criticize someone's opinion" sounds to me like another way of saying "disagree."

This is true, but again I say that "disagreement" and "flaming" are different.

Criticizing Other Opinions = Disagreement ≠ Flaming

[Draykov]

...but I do think everyone is entitled to a little bit of dignity and respect on a fundamental level.

Well, let's say every new member starts at a +5 respect/dignity level and where it goes from there is largely (in fact, almost exclusively) up to them. In my experience, excluding blatant trolls and spammers, it's not usually the newest of new kids that are the problem.

As for BluDragonZ's post, I agree that Draykov can be hard-nosed about a lot of things, but that's not always a bad thing.

I see it less as hard-nosed and more as discerning.