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What needs a MOC to get answers?

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What needs a MOC to get answers?

Postby Andi » Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:38 am

I noticed that many threads in the MOC section have very little answers but many views.

So I wonder, what does a MOC need or look like that people answer in the thread in which it is shown?
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Re: What needs a MOC to get answers?

Postby SuperDave » Thu Aug 20, 2009 7:02 am

It all depends on the audience. Most folks here like to see Star Wars builds, but not everyone wants to comment. I look at almost everything but only comment when I have something to say, or when a build is especially great. If you're looking for feedback on a MOC, ask specific questions.
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Re: What needs a MOC to get answers?

Postby Daz Hoo » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:14 am

Andi wrote:I noticed that many threads in the MOC section have very little answers but many views.

So I wonder, what does a MOC need or look like that people answer in the thread in which it is shown?


I second that line of questioning.

I posted a great MOC by one of my friends a couple of weeks ago, and got only a few comments (thanks Andi). I even took the time to answer the few question that I did get, but it didn't stimulate more comments. And it's not just me : even great MOCs like The Scorpion Jon made don't get that many comments.

What a shame...
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Re: What needs a MOC to get answers?

Postby fredjh » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:44 am

Well... what exactly do you want? 50 congratulatory pats on the back?

Whether the MOC is great or terrible, I don't post unless I have a question or something to contribute. Just because I think a MOC might be awful doesn't mean I know how to make it better.
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Re: What needs a MOC to get answers?

Postby Turkguy19 » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:52 am

One thing I do is, if they don't take the time to at least embed a pic in the post, I don't really care what it is. They want to present a MOC, they should take the time and actually present it here, instead of just posting a single link to the gallery. On top of that, I agree with fredjh. A MOC doesnt need 500 "OMG THAT IS JUST AWESOME!!!!!11!!" comments, and most of the time, that's all there is to say (either that or wow, that kinda-sorta sucks).

I'm not one to easily explain things that go through my head when it comes to building. I need to actually have the brick in my hand in order to build, so telling someone how to make something better, without being completely vague, it really hard for me to do. That, and there are a lot of members that have started to completely ignore the MOC section for various reasons, myself included sometimes.
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Re: What needs a MOC to get answers?

Postby Andi » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:54 am

fredjh wrote:Well... what exactly do you want? 50 congratulatory pats on the back?


Maybe. Sometimes this can be better than a complete ignore.
And if you find something awful, you can give constructive critic, so that the builder can correct it or build better next time.

turkguy wrote:and there are a lot of members that have started to completely ignore the MOC section for various reasons, myself included sometimes.


But isn't that a shame for a forum which is still Lego oriented?
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Re: What needs a MOC to get answers?

Postby Turkguy19 » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:57 am

The forum, really, is shifting more from LEGO MOCs, to LEGO product discussion. It still is a LEGO forum, just not a LEGO MOC forum, so I see no real problem.
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Re: What needs a MOC to get answers?

Postby Solo » Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:01 am

1. Embed pictures. The main way to get people to actually notice a MOC is if they can see it in the thread. If you're going to be lazy and not bother giving a visual taste up front, many people aren't going to go clicking around. Giant pictures make it even more of a chore and is a big turn off. Even if you have thumbnails embedded linking to desktop sized shots showing every detail people will lose interest waiting for them to load and give up easily. That is a big problem with Brickshelf. Conversely, linking to pics on Flickr will end up with a dry forum thread because they can post comments directly to each shot... But at least you're getting feedback. And don't get me stared on photo quality... presentation is important.

2. Ask specific questions. Posting a general "C&C welcome/LMKWYT" note in a thread makes it seem like it's an afterthought when you really just came here to get people to look at it. Simple showing off threads are fine and all, not every post needs to be about how to improve something, but don't expect answers to questions you're not asking. Most builders would benefit from some discussion on how to improve and it would be better if they took the first step actually asking for guidance. And no, things like "How can I improve this?" doesn't count, unless "Build it better." is an acceptable response for you.

3. Blow peoples minds. Kind of self explanatory... if you make something extraordinary people are going to ask a lot of questions about how you built it, and nitpick the tiny details they'd change to make it perfect in their eyes. It's easier to critique a well built MOC than a poorly built one because your list of suggestions is shorter, so the better ones tend to get more comments (plus all the praise). There are just so many average MOCs to browse it gets redundant to give the same general suggestions over and over.
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Re: What needs a MOC to get answers?

Postby The Brain » Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:02 am

I get irritated by people who don't embed images, just like Turk. But beyond that, great photography also helps. It allows the audience to instantly see the real "WOW!" factor behind the MOC. If there's no pic embedded, I generally don't feeling like following a trail in order to view the MOC. If a pic is extremely blurry or has bad lighting, it's also very hard to tell exactly what the builder built. Thejudeabides has mentioned this several times before in the MOC section.
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Re: What needs a MOC to get answers?

Postby Veers » Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:40 pm

While I agree that you don't need all those 'Great Job' comments, it can be discouraging when no one comments. I think Don's format is the way to go, but I also think you need to reply to the comments people leave. I like to think it shows the builder cares when he/she responds to the comments left by other users in a timely and polite fashion.
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Re: What needs a MOC to get answers?

Postby theJudeAbides » Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:44 am

*ahem*

I rarely see a MOC here that doesn't break at least one of those rules, with the first one being the worst (and pretty much the reason I wrote that post in the first place).

Seriously: EMBED YOUR PICTURES!!!

I cannot over-emphasize this, yet people continue to ignore this advice. It literally takes only a few extra seconds, but it lends an air of professionalism you cannot achieve any other way.

Presentation is everything: If people cannot immediately see you MOC, whether it be due to not embedding a picture or posting blurry pictures, they cannot properly comment on it. The art of LEGO is an extremely visual medium, and to treat it as anything less is to do both you and your MOC a great disservice.

I know I'm beginning to sound like a broken record, but you asked.

Beyond this, there are probably a few other reasons for less comments. Due to the increasing popularity of flickr, many people seem to leave comments there rather than here. In fact, the other day I was browsing the FBTB flickr pool and I realized there were many MOCs posted there that had never actually been posted on here (the forums). Another thing to consider is that FBTB seems to have fewer active members than it used to. It is unknown why this is, but people have lives that sometimes get in the way. It'll probably pick back up in time, but until then, you'll just have to make due with the few comments you get.

EDIT: Good thing I read Don's post all the way through before I posted. :lol: Anyways, what he said.
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Re: What needs a MOC to get answers?

Postby BigBenKenobi » Sat Aug 22, 2009 4:42 pm

Solo wrote:2. Ask specific questions. Posting a general "C&C welcome/LMKWYT" note in a thread makes it seem like it's an afterthought when you really just came here to get people to look at it. Simple showing off threads are fine and all, not every post needs to be about how to improve something, but don't expect answers to questions you're not asking. Most builders would benefit from some discussion on how to improve and it would be better if they took the first step actually asking for guidance. And no, things like "How can I improve this?" doesn't count, unless "Build it better." is an acceptable response for you.

Personally, I think this point really needs to be emphasized. When people ask specific questions concerning what they have built, it means they really care about what others have to say. For example, a question along the lines of "I've been attempting to construct ______ more accurately on my MOC, but have been having trouble with ______. Any ideas on how to construct this? I'd really appreciate everyone's input." If you lead off with a question on you're post like this or again, something specific, it means you are looking for direction. Thankfully, many here are happy to give their constructing tips, praise, constructive criticsm.
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Re: What needs a MOC to get answers?

Postby JPCJedi » Sat Aug 22, 2009 6:24 pm

This is the one topic that could get me to post again. Therefore:

Praise is a good thing, because it encourages younger builders, so I disagree with the "whaddaya want" criticism. But empty praise is bad. When I comment, I work to point out specific techniques about the build or the photography that I like.

The problem comes down to saturation. This is the internet. We can find any LEGO MOC we want and it's nearly all been done these days. If you want people's attention, earn it by clever wording if not excellent building.

And to Daz Hoo's point about the fighter by Jon aside form its egregious lack of an embedded teaser image, the tragedy is that there has been so much ludicrous excellence in space building that even something as awesome as that doesn't stand out. It's awesome clearly, but we've all seen things like it before. And to this, I have no solution. Bummer. :(
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Re: What needs a MOC to get answers?

Postby yankeeken » Sun Aug 23, 2009 1:26 am

I usually look at every MOC posted on this site, however I rarely end up commenting, because either what I was going to suggest has already been suggested or I just have nothing to contribute. I've always felt that it was better to say nothing, rather than post something like, "Oh, that is nice". I must say that I completely agree with Don, that builders should ask specific questions. I find myself much more likely to comment on a MOC if a question is asked, as it gives me something to think about and focus on.
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Re: What needs a MOC to get answers?

Postby Flynn » Sun Aug 23, 2009 9:01 am

Personally, I disagree with the "Ask Specific Questions" point. I am by no means a great builder and I need the CC that I can get. Usually when I build something, I don't notice the problems until they're pointed out to me, so for me, the most specific question I can ask is just asking for comments and criticism. That doesn't mean I don't care. Let's look, for example, at my old Batmobile. That needed some CC, but I didn't think there was anything wrong with it until it was pointed out to me. Also, you'll notice that when I did ask a specific question for help, no one answered.
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Re: What needs a MOC to get answers?

Postby GIR3691 » Sun Aug 23, 2009 9:50 am

Typically, if something is posted here and also on Flickr, I will comment on Flickr. I can add a note for one thing that impresses me, and just add a quick comment like "this is great! Nice use of color/parts useage/whatever" Shorter comments posted here come across as insincere and half-baked.
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Re: What needs a MOC to get answers?

Postby thepatient » Sun Aug 23, 2009 10:12 am

I enjoy looking at the MOC posts and it's great that that was the starting point for this site. I generally come here for the product information. I can appreciate the shift from MOCs to product, because I'm not a MOCer as much as I'm a collector. The fact that there is room here for both kinds of LEGO hobbyists. One of the qualities of this site is the fact that it's a smaller community. Being an older collector of LEGO, I find that this site is a bit more of my pace than say EuroBricks.

Since I'm not a MOCer it seems a little hypocritcal to comment on someones work. I will do it from time to time, but there has to be some special factor to make me say something. Though I'm not as creative as most members I can recognize talent when I see it. Kind of like Simon Cowell. Not the fact that he's mean or blunt. In the way that he can't sing a note, but have a knck for spotting talent. I do MOC a little, but not nearly as on par with others that post here. My MOCs tend to be small things; park benches, a cooler for the convenience portion of set 7993 ( http://www.bricklink.com/catalogItem.asp?S=7993-1) , a grill for my little Snack Bar or stands to get some of my Star Wars sets up off of the shelf to make room for other sets. My photogrphy is a bit to be desired too. It's a little disheartening to want to post when there are such great MOCs and photograghy to live up to. The best i can do is comment here and there... usually out of envy. The only criticisms I will make is when someone has a great idea for a MOC and then don't do it justice with a terrible job of taking pictures. Also when pictures are taken and then they're so small. Make the embedded within the rules here, but then link to big picturs. It's always great to get in there and look at the details. It's the next best thing to holding the thing in your hand or seeing it in person.

I don't know about others, but it's great that someone can put their creations on the line for anyone on the internet to see. Personally I don't have the heuvos or the courage to do so. All I would get is criticisms or no comments in the end. I'd rather leave that up to people with the talent to do it and I'll enjoy it from the side lines.
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Re: What needs a MOC to get answers?

Postby cloner95 » Sun Aug 23, 2009 12:06 pm

i know it off topic but who knows why i can't get to the guide?
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Re: What needs a MOC to get answers?

Postby yankeeken » Sun Aug 23, 2009 1:42 pm

Another thing is that if your MOC is based off of or inspired by what might to an unfamiliar source to some people (movie, tv show, book, etc.), it is always best if you include at least one reference picture or video clip. For example, SuperDave included a link to the video his figs were based off of and also included a reference picture in his Flickr gallery.

If people don't know what your MOC is suppose to be, they will not comment on it.
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Re: What needs a MOC to get answers?

Postby bdc » Sun Aug 23, 2009 11:39 pm

I don't tend to read the forums unless they are linked from one of the news articles. That said, it would be nice if there were more featured on the main page. Maybe there should be a MOC of the week or the month or more MOC contests?
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